mhmsadyq:


You enjoy circus!

You can keep saying the same thing forever. I am too busy for that.

I am here to put the correct perspective of Islam on any issue I feel strongly about, which i do whenever i see one and i did to your post.

You are not competent to interpret the Qur'an, though you may read it either in Arabic or English or both.
You can only ask questions on any part of its content you have a problem with and there are hundreds of Muslims on this forum that can assist you.

Trinity in Islam is 'Shriek' even if the entities involved are: Angels, gods, idols, prophets, mothers of God, sons of God, etc.
This is simply the Islamic Shari ah.

Then explain what Christians mean by Trinity: how can you say a word is haram without being able to say why?

Do you think wisdom is accepting something because someone said so or using your brain to analyse and judge what is said whether it be true or lies!?


1. Is trinity (first god) + (second god) +God?

2. Is this Allah's definition of Trinity?
3. What do you think is the Christians definition of Trinity?

shadeyinka:

Your Taqqiya doesn't work one bit with me for I know you Muslims in and out. You are prone to changing the meaning of the Qur'an to suit your deception. Allah was wrong in the Qur'an.

The Qur'an is written in Arabic and translated into other languages such as English language. As long as the Qur'an is written in books made of ink and paper, I don't need to Believe in your Allah to QUOTE what is written and printed by machines.


It is only liars that will insist that only God knows about what man has done.

Do you know any Christian sect that says Mary and Jesus are partners with God?




Check the highlight. This is a misconception of Allah about Trinity.

Is trinity (first god) + (second god) +God?

1. Is this Allah's definition of Trinity?
2. What do you think is the Christians definition of Trinity?

Who clearly has a misconception?

You enjoy circus!

You can keep saying the same thing forever. I am too busy for that.

I am here to put the correct perspective of Islam on any issue I feel strongly about, which i do whenever i see one and i did to your post.

You are not competent to interpret the Qur'an, though you may read it either in Arabic or English or both.
You can only ask questions on any part of its content you have a problem with and there are hundreds of Muslims on this forum that can assist you.

Trinity in Islam is 'Shriek' even if the entities involved are: Angels, gods, idols, prophets, mothers of God, sons of God, etc.
This is simply the Islamic Shari ah.

mhmsadyq:


You enjoy circus!

You can keep saying the same thing forever. I am too busy for that.

I am here to put the correct perspective of Islam on any issue I feel strongly about, which i do whenever i see one and i did to your post.

You are not competent to interpret the Qur'an, though you may read it either in Arabic or English or both.
You can only ask questions on any part of its content you have a problem with and there are hundreds of Muslims on this forum that can assist you.

Trinity in Islam is 'Shriek' even if the entities involved are: Angels, gods, idols, prophets, mothers of God, sons of God, etc.
This is simply the Islamic Shari ah.

You can see that I am not even making any assertions about Islam (as you claim I can't understand). Therefore, I ask you again

1. Is trinity (first god) + (second god) +God?

2. Is this above Allah's definition of Trinity?
3. What do you think is the Christians definition of Trinity?

Any Muslim must know what he has rejected as error!

shadeyinka:

You can see that I am not even making any assertions about Islam (as you claim I can't understand). Therefore, I ask you again

1. Is trinity (first god) + (second god) +God?

2. Is this above Allah's definition of Trinity?
3. What do you think is the Christians definition of Trinity?

Any Muslim must know what he has rejected as error!

1. I think trinity is 3 persons making up one God.
Each of these persons is God. It is a challenging dogma.

Though i can't say if they share equal powers.

2. Yes.

3. You should be in a better position to tell us. You are the Christian.

The question:
1. Is trinity (first god) + (second god) +God?
Your Answer:

mhmsadyq:

1. I think trinity is 3 persons making up one God.
Each of these persons is God. It is a challenging dogma.

Though i can't say if they share equal powers.

Trinity describes the Identity of God (singular) as
The Father: who wills and decides things that will be
The Word: who commands the will of the Father to be
The Holy Spirit: who powers things commanded into existence

The Father is not the Word
The Word is not the Holy Spirit
The Holy Spirit is not the Father
(For their Office and Roles are different)
Yet,
The Father is God
The Word is God
The Holy Spirit is God

God is a SINGLE UNITARY Entity who created everything seen and unseen.


Trinity is NOT 3 persons making up one God. It is rather ONE God who simultaneously manifests as the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit

If you think the doctrine is confusing, then I can use Islam at least to explain DUALITY (for you teach it without knowing)


The second Question:
2. Is this above Allah's definition of Trinity?

mhmsadyq:

2. Yes.

You can see that the definition of Allah is wrong.
Trinity is not partnership with God/Allah BUT the UNITARY God simultaneously existing as the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit.

If God can be simultaneously closer to each one of us in the universe than the jugular vein in our necks, can He not simultaneously be the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit?


Third Question:
3. What do you think is the Christians definition of Trinity?

mhmsadyq:

3. You should be in a better position to tell us. You are the Christian.

I think I have explained the Christian definition of Trinity as ONE UNITARY SINGULAR God simultaneously existing as the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit!

1. Not partnership with God
2. Not three Gods uniting together as one.

Permit me to use Islam to EXPLAIN this if it looks impossible or complex or challenging to you.

shadeyinka:
The question:
1. Is trinity (first god) + (second god) +God?
Your Answer:

Trinity describes the Identity of God (singular) as
The Father: who wills and decides things that will be
The Word: who commands the will of the Father to be
The Holy Spirit: who powers things commanded into existence

The Father is not the Word
The Word is not the Holy Spirit
The Holy Spirit is not the Father
(For their Office and Roles are different)
Yet,
The Father is God
The Word is God
The Holy Spirit is God

God is a SINGLE UNITARY Entity who created everything seen and unseen.


Trinity is NOT 3 persons making up one God. It is rather ONE God who simultaneously manifests as the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit

If you think the doctrine is confusing, then I can use Islam at least to explain DUALITY (for you teach it without knowing)


The second Question:
2. Is this above Allah's definition of Trinity?

You can see that the definition of Allah is wrong.
Trinity is not partnership with God/Allah BUT the UNITARY God simultaneously existing as the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit.

If God can be simultaneously closer to each one of us in the universe than the jugular vein in our necks, can He not simultaneously be the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit?


Third Question:
3. What do you think is the Christians definition of Trinity?

I think I have explained the Christian definition of Trinity as ONE UNITARY SINGULAR God simultaneously existing as the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit!

1. Not partnership with God
2. Not three Gods uniting together as one.

Permit me to use Islam to EXPLAIN this if it looks impossible or complex or challenging to you.

Is the Son (Jesus), God as in, YHWH?

...Before the idea (Trinity) was made dogma , at the First Council of Nicaea, there were also other ideas on how to solve the problem. These included:

God adopted Jesus during baptism (known as Adoptionism)

Jesus was all God, and only appeared to be human (Docetism)

The three lived together like a family (Tritheism)

Only God the Father is the true God, the Son and the Holy Spirit are not.

May be as Partners with Allah i guess...

[3:66] Āl ‘Imrān-آل عِمْرَان
"ہٰۤاَنۡتُمۡ ہٰۤؤُلَآءِ حَاجَجۡتُمۡ فِیۡمَا لَکُمۡ بِہٖ عِلۡمٌ فَلِمَ تُحَآجُّوۡنَ فِیۡمَا لَیۡسَ لَکُمۡ بِہٖ عِلۡمٌ ؕ وَ اللّٰہُ یَعۡلَمُ وَ اَنۡتُمۡ لَا تَعۡلَمُوۡنَ ﴿۶۶﴾

Listen! You are the people who have also been disputing about matters of which you had (but some) knowledge. But why do you dispute about things of which you have no knowledge (at all)? And Allah knows but you do not know.

mhmsadyq:


Is the Son (Jesus), God as in, YHWH?

John 1:1-3:
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

John 1:14:
" The Word became flesh and lived among us. We gazed on his glory, the kind of glory that belongs to the Father's unique Son, who is full of grace and truth."

John 1:10:
"But although he (Christ) made the world, the world didn't recognize him when he came."

John 1:14:
"And Christ became a human being and lived here on earth among us and was full of loving forgiveness and truth. And some of us have seen his glory --the glory of the only Son of the heavenly Father!"

Heb 1:8-9:
"But to the Son he (God) said, Your throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of your kingdom. You have loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your fellows."

Col 1:15-17:
"(Christ) Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him (Christ) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist."


Does not Islam implicitly teach Duality? Yet Trinity is difficult for you!

shadeyinka:


John 1:1-3:
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

John 1:14:
" The Word became flesh and lived among us. We gazed on his glory, the kind of glory that belongs to the Father's unique Son, who is full of grace and truth."

John 1:10:
"But although he (Christ) made the world, the world didn't recognize him when he came."

John 1:14:
"And Christ became a human being and lived here on earth among us and was full of loving forgiveness and truth. And some of us have seen his glory --the glory of the only Son of the heavenly Father!"

Heb 1:8-9:
"But to the Son he (God) said, Your throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of your kingdom. You have loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your fellows."

Col 1:15-17:
"(Christ) Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him (Christ) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist."


Does not Islam implicitly teach Duality? Yet Trinity is difficult for you!

Wonderful verses from the bible!
I prefer a direct answer from you, who understands the bible, better.

Islam teaches duality of what?

mhmsadyq:


Wonderful verses from the bible!
I prefer a direct answer from you, who understands the bible, better.

Islam teaches duality of what?

If I gave you my own words, you will claim a doctrinal self acclaimmation and bias. Thus I gave you the scripture

Quran5:68
Say, ‘People of the Book, you have no true basis [for your religion] unless you uphold the Torah, the Gospel, and that which has been sent down to you from your Lord,’ but what has been sent down to you [Prophet] from your Lord is sure to increase many of them in their insolence and defiance: do not worry about those who defy [God].

The Word who being God became Human. This human is called Jesus

lslam at least teaches clearly duality if not trinity (only not Formalized as a doctrine)

shadeyinka:

If I gave you my own words, you will claim a doctrinal self acclaimmation and bias. Thus I gave you the scripture

Quran5:68
Say, ‘People of the Book, you have no true basis [for your religion] unless you uphold the Torah, the Gospel, and that which has been sent down to you from your Lord,’ but what has been sent down to you [Prophet] from your Lord is sure to increase many of them in their insolence and defiance: do not worry about those who defy [God].

The Word who being God became Human. This human is called Jesus

lslam at least teaches clearly duality if not trinity (only not Formalized as a doctrine)

Ok.

I am yet to understand the duality or trinity of what, in Islam.

May be you are using the trinity lens on mind to read the Qur'an.

mhmsadyq:


Ok.

I am yet to understand the duality or trinity of what, in Islam.

May be you are using the trinity lens on mind to read the Qur'an.

I use not the trinity lens to claim this: perhaps I should walk you through it.

I hope this is a correct view of your belief: if not, you can correct me?
According to you Muslims, when a man dies, two angels will come to him and ask him three basic question
i. What is your religion?
ii. Who was your prophet?
iii. Who is your Lord?
If he replies appropriately as : Islam-Prophet Mohammed-Allah, his state in the grave would be made pleasant. Otherwise, it would be made difficult.
(I may not have ordered the questions according to its sequence)
Is this a correct representation of what you believe?

shadeyinka:

I use not the trinity lens to claim this: perhaps I should walk you through it.

I hope this is a correct view of your belief: if not, you can correct me?
According to you Muslims, when a man dies, two angels will come to him and ask him three basic question
i. What is your religion?
ii. Who was your prophet?
iii. Who is your Lord?
If he replies appropriately as : Islam-Prophet Mohammed-Allah, his state in the grave would be made pleasant. Otherwise, it would be made difficult.
(I may not have ordered the questions according to its sequence)
Is this a correct representation of what you believe?

Continue with your narration. I will be following.

mhmsadyq:


Continue with your narration. I will be following.

Suppose I want to avoid these angels from questioning me, is it possible?

Lets assume I told my people to
1. Put me inside the furnance for melting iron and burn even my bones to smokes
2. Cut my body into 100 parts and feed the body parts to lions, hyenas, pigs and tigers
3. Refuse to bury me but keep my body indefinitely alive in a ice cooled ventilator and 24/7 minuite by minuite surveillance.

Now that I dont have a grave, Do you think the angels will still be able to ask me these three questions?

shadeyinka:

Suppose I want to avoid these angels from questioning me, is it possible?

Lets assume I told my people to
1. Put me inside the furnance for melting iron and burn even my bones to smokes
2. Cut my body into 100 parts and feed the body parts to lions, hyenas, pigs and tigers
3. Refuse to bury me but keep my body indefinitely alive in a ice cooled ventilator and 24/7 minuite by minuite surveillance.

Now that I dont have a grave, Do you think the angels will still be able to ask me these three questions?

You will still be asked.

The grave may be symbolic.

After death, it is no longer about the physical body but the Soul which is a spirit.

mhmsadyq:


You will still be asked.

The grave may be symbolic.

After death, it is no longer about the physical body but the Soul which is a spirit.

1. But does it make sense for the soul (Ruh) of man to be punished for the sins commited by the physical person.
2. Does the soul have a mouth and ears to hear the questioning of the angels?
3. How come the Ruh of man cannot argue that the physical man was the guilty person and not him as
*Murder is done by the Physical man
*Fornication is by the physical man
*Even prayer and good deeds is done by the Physical man

shadeyinka:

1. But does it make sense for the soul (Ruh) of man to be punished for the sins commited by the physical person.
2. Does the soul have a mouth and ears to hear the questioning of the angels?
3. How come the Ruh of man cannot argue that the physical man was the guilty person and not him as
*Murder is done by the Physical man
*Fornication is by the physical man
*Even prayer and good deeds is done by the Physical man

WOW!

Like i said earlier, you are using the Trinity lens.

The Soul is the person:

[4:110] Al-Nisā-النِّسَآء
"وَ مَنۡ یَّعۡمَلۡ سُوۡٓءًا اَوۡ یَظۡلِمۡ نَفۡسَہٗ ثُمَّ یَسۡتَغۡفِرِ اللّٰہَ یَجِدِ اللّٰہَ غَفُوۡرًا رَّحِیۡمًا ﴿۱۱۰﴾

And he who commits evil or wrongs his own soul and then seeks Allah’s forgiveness will find Allah Most Forgiving, Ever-Merciful.

[4:111] Al-Nisā-النِّسَآء
"وَ مَنۡ یَّکۡسِبۡ اِثۡمًا فَاِنَّمَا یَکۡسِبُہٗ عَلٰی نَفۡسِہٖ ؕ وَ کَانَ اللّٰہُ عَلِیۡمًا حَکِیۡمًا ﴿۱۱۱﴾

And whoever commits sin is only bringing (its consequent misery) to his own soul and Allah is All-Knowing, Most Wise.


[7:9] Al-A‘rāf-الْأَعْرَاف
"وَ مَنۡ خَفَّتۡ مَوَازِیۡنُہٗ فَاُولٰٓئِکَ الَّذِیۡنَ خَسِرُوۡۤا اَنۡفُسَہُمۡ بِمَا کَانُوۡا بِاٰیٰتِنَا یَظۡلِمُوۡنَ ﴿۹﴾

But those whose scales (of righteous deeds) are light, it is they who have harmed their souls because they had been unjust to Our Revelations.

[7:37] Al-A‘rāf-الْأَعْرَاف
"فَمَنۡ اَظۡلَمُ مِمَّنِ افۡتَرٰی عَلَی اللّٰہِ کَذِبًا اَوۡ کَذَّبَ بِاٰیٰتِہٖ ؕ اُولٰٓئِکَ یَنَالُہُمۡ نَصِیۡبُہُمۡ مِّنَ الۡکِتٰبِ ؕ حَتّٰۤی اِذَا جَآءَتۡہُمۡ رُسُلُنَا یَتَوَفَّوۡنَہُمۡ ۙ قَالُوۡۤا اَیۡنَ مَا کُنۡتُمۡ تَدۡعُوۡنَ مِنۡ دُوۡنِ اللّٰہِ ؕ قَالُوۡا ضَلُّوۡا عَنَّا وَ شَہِدُوۡا عَلٰۤی اَنۡفُسِہِمۡ اَنَّہُمۡ کَانُوۡا کٰفِرِیۡنَ ﴿۳۷﴾

Then who can be a greater wrongdoer than the one who fabricates a lie against Allah or rejects His Revelations as false? The share of such people will reach them as has been written in the Book until, when the (angels) whom We send will come to them to take away their souls, they will say (to them): ‘Now where are those (false gods) whom you used to worship besides Allah?’ They will say (replying): ‘They are lost from us (i.e., how they can be seen now!),’ and they will bear witness (themselves) against their own souls that they were doubtlessly disbelievers.

Whenever Allah talks about the hereafter, it is the soul that accounts.

The soul is the person, though not in Trinity as you have it in relation to YHWH in Christianity.

mhmsadyq:


WOW!

Like i said earlier, you are using the Trinity lens.

The Soul is the person:

[4:110] Al-Nisā-النِّسَآء
"وَ مَنۡ یَّعۡمَلۡ سُوۡٓءًا اَوۡ یَظۡلِمۡ نَفۡسَہٗ ثُمَّ یَسۡتَغۡفِرِ اللّٰہَ یَجِدِ اللّٰہَ غَفُوۡرًا رَّحِیۡمًا ﴿۱۱۰﴾

And he who commits evil or wrongs his own soul and then seeks Allah’s forgiveness will find Allah Most Forgiving, Ever-Merciful.

[4:111] Al-Nisā-النِّسَآء
"وَ مَنۡ یَّکۡسِبۡ اِثۡمًا فَاِنَّمَا یَکۡسِبُہٗ عَلٰی نَفۡسِہٖ ؕ وَ کَانَ اللّٰہُ عَلِیۡمًا حَکِیۡمًا ﴿۱۱۱﴾

And whoever commits sin is only bringing (its consequent misery) to his own soul and Allah is All-Knowing, Most Wise.


[7:9] Al-A‘rāf-الْأَعْرَاف
"وَ مَنۡ خَفَّتۡ مَوَازِیۡنُہٗ فَاُولٰٓئِکَ الَّذِیۡنَ خَسِرُوۡۤا اَنۡفُسَہُمۡ بِمَا کَانُوۡا بِاٰیٰتِنَا یَظۡلِمُوۡنَ ﴿۹﴾

But those whose scales (of righteous deeds) are light, it is they who have harmed their souls because they had been unjust to Our Revelations.

[7:37] Al-A‘rāf-الْأَعْرَاف
"فَمَنۡ اَظۡلَمُ مِمَّنِ افۡتَرٰی عَلَی اللّٰہِ کَذِبًا اَوۡ کَذَّبَ بِاٰیٰتِہٖ ؕ اُولٰٓئِکَ یَنَالُہُمۡ نَصِیۡبُہُمۡ مِّنَ الۡکِتٰبِ ؕ حَتّٰۤی اِذَا جَآءَتۡہُمۡ رُسُلُنَا یَتَوَفَّوۡنَہُمۡ ۙ قَالُوۡۤا اَیۡنَ مَا کُنۡتُمۡ تَدۡعُوۡنَ مِنۡ دُوۡنِ اللّٰہِ ؕ قَالُوۡا ضَلُّوۡا عَنَّا وَ شَہِدُوۡا عَلٰۤی اَنۡفُسِہِمۡ اَنَّہُمۡ کَانُوۡا کٰفِرِیۡنَ ﴿۳۷﴾

Then who can be a greater wrongdoer than the one who fabricates a lie against Allah or rejects His Revelations as false? The share of such people will reach them as has been written in the Book until, when the (angels) whom We send will come to them to take away their souls, they will say (to them): ‘Now where are those (false gods) whom you used to worship besides Allah?’ They will say (replying): ‘They are lost from us (i.e., how they can be seen now!),’ and they will bear witness (themselves) against their own souls that they were doubtlessly disbelievers.

Whenever Allah talks about the hereafter, it is the soul that accounts.

The soul is the person, though not in Trinity as you have it in relation to YHWH in Christianity.

The Soul is the Person.
But the Soul is invisible
The Soul cannot lift a bucket
Is your soul not you?

But,

Your Body is the Person of you
But the Body is visible
The Body can lift a bucket
Is your body not you?

Can we then conclude that
1. Man is his Body
2. Man is his Ruh (Soul)
3. The disconnection of the Body and Soul of Man is death
4. Even though the Body is NOT the (Soul) Ruh, the Ruh answers for everything the body has done as if it committed the sin or good deed.
5. Even though the Body and Soul are different, yet they are the same person.

For the Christian, Man is a Trinity of the Body, Soul and Spirit. The Soul of a person answers for both the Physical Body and Spiritual Body of Man


The Body is the Physical Identity of Man
With the Body, man interacts with the Physical World

The Soul is the Personal Identity of Man
With the Soul, man interacts with the Emotional, Intellectual and Decision making for the Body

The Spirit is the Spiritual Identity of Man
With the Spirit, man interacts with the Spirit World. This is what God and Jinns and Angels see as you.

shadeyinka:

The Soul is the Person.
But the Soul is invisible
The Soul cannot lift a bucket
Is your soul not you?

But,

Your Body is the Person of you
But the Body is visible
The Body can lift a bucket
Is your body not you?

Can we then conclude that
1. Man is his Body
2. Man is his Ruh (Soul)
3. The disconnection of the Body and Soul of Man is death
4. Even though the Body is NOT the (Soul) Ruh, the Ruh answers for everything the body has done as if it committed the sin or good deed.
5. Even though the Body and Soul are different, yet they are the same person.

For the Christian, Man is a Trinity of the Body, Soul and Spirit. The Soul of a person answers for both the Physical Body and Spiritual Body of Man


The Body is the Physical Identity of Man
With the Body, man interacts with the Physical World

The Soul is the Personal Identity of Man
With the Soul, man interacts with the Emotional, Intellectual and Decision making for the Body

The Spirit is the Spiritual Identity of Man
With the Spirit, man interacts with the Spirit World. This is what God and Jinns and Angels see as you.

I had known it's all about the Trinity.

You analogy using the questioning in the grave according to Islam does not explain Trinity in anyway, except that you are the one making it up.

Anyways, the soul and the body are the same person, else Allah won't be ask the soul to account for the body.

Whatever the body does it is the soul that does it.

Take a look again:
...Before the idea was made dogma , at the First Council of Nicaea, there were also other ideas on how to solve the problem. These included:

*God adopted Jesus during baptism (known as Adoptionism)
*Jesus was all God, and only appeared to be human (Docetism )
*The three lived together like a family (Tritheism)
*Only God the Father is the true God, the Son and the Holy Spirit are not.

I think Trinity as a dogma was later introduced into Christianity to grant divinity to "The Only Begotten Son" Jesus.
It will make more sense for the Son of God to be God, for the Spirit of God to also be God.

This is what informed Trinity.

mhmsadyq:


I had known it's all about the Trinity.

You analogy using the questioning in the grave according to Islam does not explain Trinity in anyway, except that you are the one making it up.

Anyways, the soul and the body are the same person, else Allah won't be ask the soul to account for the body.

Whatever the body does it is the soul that does it.

Take a look again:
...Before the idea was made dogma , at the First Council of Nicaea, there were also other ideas on how to solve the problem. These included:

*God adopted Jesus during baptism (known as Adoptionism)
*Jesus was all God, and only appeared to be human (Docetism )
*The three lived together like a family (Tritheism)
*Only God the Father is the true God, the Son and the Holy Spirit are not.

I think Trinity as a dogma was later introduced into Christianity to grant divinity to "The Only Begotten Son" Jesus.
It will make more sense for the Son of God to be God, for the Spirit of God to also be God.

This is what informed Trinity.

Your post highlighted in RED clearly explains not trinity but DUALITY.

1. You said: Anyways, the soul and the body are the same person,
2. However, the Soul and the Body are DIFFERENT
3. You said: Whatever the body does it is the soul that does it.

The summary of what you've said is:
The Body is Not The Soul
The Soul is Not the Body
The Body is Man
The Soul is Ma

Certainly, MAN is UNITARY however, man is his body and man is his soul. We don't ever say that man is composed of a partnership of two men (soul and body)




This is the EXPLANATION of that which seem like contradiction to you.

I do not have the intention of convincing you about Trinity or Duality.
My aim is just to EXPLAIN the concept to you.

And so you can see that the Qur'an err greatly in comprehension of the Christians idea of Trinity.

Like I said: my purpose is NOT to convince you of the CORRECTNESS or otherwise of the term Trinity BUT to aid your comprehension!

shadeyinka:

Your post highlighted in RED clearly explains not trinity but DUALITY.

1. You said: Anyways, the soul and the body are the same person,
2. However, the Soul and the Body are DIFFERENT
3. You said: Whatever the body does it is the soul that does it.

The summary of what you've said is:
The Body is Not The Soul
The Soul is Not the Body
The Body is Man
The Soul is Ma

Certainly, MAN is UNITARY however, man is his body and man is his soul. We don't ever say that man is composed of a partnership of two men (soul and body)




This is the EXPLANATION of that which seem like contradiction to you.

I do not have the intention of convincing you about Trinity or Duality.
My aim is just to EXPLAIN the concept to you.

And so you can see that the Qur'an err greatly in comprehension of the Christians idea of Trinity.

Like I said: my purpose is NOT to convince you of the CORRECTNESS or otherwise of the term Trinity BUT to aid your comprehension!

OK, no wahala.

Allah cannot err!
We have no doubt in his words, except what we don't understand.

Allah says:

[4:171] Al-Nisā-النِّسَآء
"یٰۤاَہۡلَ الۡکِتٰبِ لَا تَغۡلُوۡا فِیۡ دِیۡنِکُمۡ وَ لَا تَقُوۡلُوۡا عَلَی اللّٰہِ اِلَّا الۡحَقَّ ؕ اِنَّمَا الۡمَسِیۡحُ عِیۡسَی ابۡنُ مَرۡیَمَ رَسُوۡلُ اللّٰہِ وَ کَلِمَتُہٗ ۚ اَلۡقٰہَاۤ اِلٰی مَرۡیَمَ وَ رُوۡحٌ مِّنۡہُ ۫ فَاٰمِنُوۡا بِاللّٰہِ وَ رُسُلِہٖ ۚ۟ وَ لَا تَقُوۡلُوۡا ثَلٰثَۃٌ ؕ اِنۡتَہُوۡا خَیۡرًا لَّکُمۡ ؕ اِنَّمَا اللّٰہُ اِلٰہٌ وَّاحِدٌ ؕ سُبۡحٰنَہٗۤ اَنۡ یَّکُوۡنَ لَہٗ وَلَدٌ ۘ لَہٗ مَا فِی السَّمٰوٰتِ وَ مَا فِی الۡاَرۡضِ ؕ وَ کَفٰی بِاللّٰہِ وَکِیۡلًا ﴿۱۷۱﴾٪

O People of the Book! Exceed not the limits in your din (religion), and speak nothing but the truth about Allah’s glory. The fact is simple that the Messiah, ‘Isa, the son of Maryam (Jesus, the son of Mary) is Allah’s Messenger and His Word which He conveyed to Maryam (Mary) and a Spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His Messengers and do not say: ‘There are three (Gods).’ Refrain (from this belief); (that) is best for you. Verily, Allah is the Only One God, Holy is He, far above having a son. Whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth (all) belongs to Him alone. And Sufficient is Allah as a Guardian.

[4:172] Al-Nisā-النِّسَآء
"لَنۡ یَّسۡتَنۡکِفَ الۡمَسِیۡحُ اَنۡ یَّکُوۡنَ عَبۡدًا لِّلّٰہِ وَ لَا الۡمَلٰٓئِکَۃُ الۡمُقَرَّبُوۡنَ ؕ وَ مَنۡ یَّسۡتَنۡکِفۡ عَنۡ عِبَادَتِہٖ وَ یَسۡتَکۡبِرۡ فَسَیَحۡشُرُہُمۡ اِلَیۡہِ جَمِیۡعًا ﴿۱۷۲﴾

The Messiah feels no embarrassment in being a servant of Allah. Nor do the closest angels (ever feel ashamed). And whoever disdains to be His servant and perpetrates arrogance, He will soon assemble together all such people before Him.


[112:1] Al-Ikhlāṣ-الْإِخْلاَص
"قُلۡ ہُوَ اللّٰہُ اَحَدٌ ۚ﴿۱﴾

(O Esteemed Messenger!) Proclaim: ‘He is Allah, Who is the One.


[112:2] Al-Ikhlāṣ-الْإِخْلاَص
"اَللّٰہُ الصَّمَدُ ۚ﴿۲﴾

Allah is the Transcendent of all, the Protector and Far-Superior to all.

[112:3] Al-Ikhlāṣ-الْإِخْلاَص
"لَمۡ یَلِدۡ ۬ۙ وَ لَمۡ یُوۡلَدۡ ۙ﴿۳﴾

He has not begotten any, nor is He begotten.

[112:4] Al-Ikhlāṣ-الْإِخْلاَص
"وَ لَمۡ یَکُنۡ لَّہٗ کُفُوًا اَحَدٌ ٪﴿۴﴾

Nor is there anyone equal to Him.’


Take another look:


....Before the idea was made dogma , at the First Council of Nicaea, there were also other ideas on how to solve the problem. These included:

God adopted Jesus during baptism (known as Adoptionism)

Jesus was all God, and only appeared to be human ( Docetism )

The three lived together like a family ( Tritheism)

Only God the Father is the true God, the Son and the Holy Spirit are not.

mhmsadyq:


OK, no wahala.

Allah cannot err!
We have no doubt in his words, except what we don't understand.

Allah says:

[4:171] Al-Nisā-النِّسَآء
"یٰۤاَہۡلَ الۡکِتٰبِ لَا تَغۡلُوۡا فِیۡ دِیۡنِکُمۡ وَ لَا تَقُوۡلُوۡا عَلَی اللّٰہِ اِلَّا الۡحَقَّ ؕ اِنَّمَا الۡمَسِیۡحُ عِیۡسَی ابۡنُ مَرۡیَمَ رَسُوۡلُ اللّٰہِ وَ کَلِمَتُہٗ ۚ اَلۡقٰہَاۤ اِلٰی مَرۡیَمَ وَ رُوۡحٌ مِّنۡہُ ۫ فَاٰمِنُوۡا بِاللّٰہِ وَ رُسُلِہٖ ۚ۟ وَ لَا تَقُوۡلُوۡا ثَلٰثَۃٌ ؕ اِنۡتَہُوۡا خَیۡرًا لَّکُمۡ ؕ اِنَّمَا اللّٰہُ اِلٰہٌ وَّاحِدٌ ؕ سُبۡحٰنَہٗۤ اَنۡ یَّکُوۡنَ لَہٗ وَلَدٌ ۘ لَہٗ مَا فِی السَّمٰوٰتِ وَ مَا فِی الۡاَرۡضِ ؕ وَ کَفٰی بِاللّٰہِ وَکِیۡلًا ﴿۱۷۱﴾٪

O People of the Book! Exceed not the limits in your din (religion), and speak nothing but the truth about Allah’s glory. The fact is simple that the Messiah, ‘Isa, the son of Maryam (Jesus, the son of Mary) is Allah’s Messenger and His Word which He conveyed to Maryam (Mary) and a Spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His Messengers and do not say: ‘There are three (Gods).’ Refrain (from this belief); (that) is best for you. Verily, Allah is the Only One God, Holy is He, far above having a son. Whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth (all) belongs to Him alone. And Sufficient is Allah as a Guardian.

[4:172] Al-Nisā-النِّسَآء
"لَنۡ یَّسۡتَنۡکِفَ الۡمَسِیۡحُ اَنۡ یَّکُوۡنَ عَبۡدًا لِّلّٰہِ وَ لَا الۡمَلٰٓئِکَۃُ الۡمُقَرَّبُوۡنَ ؕ وَ مَنۡ یَّسۡتَنۡکِفۡ عَنۡ عِبَادَتِہٖ وَ یَسۡتَکۡبِرۡ فَسَیَحۡشُرُہُمۡ اِلَیۡہِ جَمِیۡعًا ﴿۱۷۲﴾

The Messiah feels no embarrassment in being a servant of Allah. Nor do the closest angels (ever feel ashamed). And whoever disdains to be His servant and perpetrates arrogance, He will soon assemble together all such people before Him.


[112:1] Al-Ikhlāṣ-الْإِخْلاَص
"قُلۡ ہُوَ اللّٰہُ اَحَدٌ ۚ﴿۱﴾

(O Esteemed Messenger!) Proclaim: ‘He is Allah, Who is the One.


[112:2] Al-Ikhlāṣ-الْإِخْلاَص
"اَللّٰہُ الصَّمَدُ ۚ﴿۲﴾

Allah is the Transcendent of all, the Protector and Far-Superior to all.

[112:3] Al-Ikhlāṣ-الْإِخْلاَص
"لَمۡ یَلِدۡ ۬ۙ وَ لَمۡ یُوۡلَدۡ ۙ﴿۳﴾

He has not begotten any, nor is He begotten.

[112:4] Al-Ikhlāṣ-الْإِخْلاَص
"وَ لَمۡ یَکُنۡ لَّہٗ کُفُوًا اَحَدٌ ٪﴿۴﴾

Nor is there anyone equal to Him.’

What is the meaning of the term Messiah?
What is the purpose of the Messiah?

I am sure you know that Jesus being a son is not BIOLOGICAL.

John 3:36:
"He that believes on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God stays on him."
The above is a strong contradiction with the Qur'an

mhmsadyq:

Take another look:

....Before the idea was made dogma , at the First Council of Nicaea, there were also other ideas on how to solve the problem. These included:

God adopted Jesus during baptism (known as Adoptionism)

Jesus was all God, and only appeared to be human ( Docetism )

The three lived together like a family ( Tritheism)

Only God the Father is the true God, the Son and the Holy Spirit are not.

The Council of Nicaea only discussed the theology of what they have seen in the Scriptures.

They saw that the Scriptures paint the Father as God, the Word who became the Son as God and the Holy Spirit as God. At the same time, the Scriptures teach that God is ONE.

Just as Muslims misconceive the idea of the Christian trinity was how early Christians misconceived how The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit can be God without violating the ONENESS of God. The term Trinity was used to convey this understanding.

This is what I have EXPLAINED using your known concept in Islam.
Like I said:
My purpose is NOT to convince you of the CORRECTNESS or otherwise of the term Trinity BUT to aid your comprehension!


It's just like the word TAWHEED!
It doesn't exist in the Qur'an yet it is the most basic and fundamental doctrine in Islam because
the first obligation upon every Muslim is Tawheed and the first pillar of Tawheed is al-kufr bit-Taaghuut, or to reject Taaghuut (false deity).

The fact that Allah didn't say this in the Qur'an doesn't make Tawheed false.

shadeyinka:


What is the meaning of the term Messiah?
What is the purpose of the Messiah?

I am sure you know that Jesus being a son is not BIOLOGICAL.

John 3:36:
"He that believes on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God stays on him."
The above is a strong contradiction with the Qur'an


The Council of Nicaea only discussed the theology of what they have seen in the Scriptures.

They saw that the Scriptures paint the Father as God, the Word who became the Son as God and the Holy Spirit as God. At the same time, the Scriptures teach that God is ONE.

Just as Muslims misconceive the idea of the Christian trinity was how early Christians misconceived how The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit can be God without violating the ONENESS of God. The term Trinity was used to convey this understanding.

This is what I have EXPLAINED using your known concept in Islam.
Like I said:
My purpose is NOT to convince you of the CORRECTNESS or otherwise of the term Trinity BUT to aid your comprehension!


It's just like the word TAWHEED!
It doesn't exist in the Qur'an yet it is the most basic and fundamental doctrine in Islam because
the first obligation upon every Muslim is Tawheed and the first pillar of Tawheed is al-kufr bit-Taaghuut, or to reject Taaghuut (false deity).

The fact that Allah didn't say this in the Qur'an doesn't make Tawheed false.

OK.
Thanks.