Vireani79:


Brother I am also a member of christ embassy alakija ojo

We grew the church from the scratch with pastor Tony ikoku and later his wife late pastor doyin may her soul rest in peace

Now I read all u said that's it's not because of tithe and offering
U talked about how u go out to win souls and bring them to church
Bros let's get this straight
The going out thingy in Christ embassy isn't about winning souls
We only most times 9 out of 10 just invite them and collect their data

Hardly do we really minister to them cos its just a short time every Sunday morning and yes we miss services
So it's not something I am not used to
During the days of pastor Tony way back 2002
We really did win souls
We go to thier houses
We sit with them
We share our clothes
We share our money
We find solutions for them
Jobs ...clothes ..food ...rent ...even health issues
Now when u do that
U truly win this people and they too begin to win people
That's was how Christ embassy ojo was built till it became a mighty church

In the days of sister lilly, dem no born u well not to bring ur report
U go win that soul

U go bring offering
U go bring seeds
Why cos u are made to be involved in the lives of these people u meet

Now saying that how much them wan bring is degrading becos many of us including me
When I came to Christ embassy ojo
I was poor
Broke
Naked

But after I began to worship there
I began to have
I made money and even travelled out to London
Many like me I saw in the UK from same Christ embassy ojo

So it has nothing to do with how much dem wan bring
Cos when God's word hit u right
Things will be right in ur life

But today how is the same ojo
No one cares
Church is now a fashion show
People only care if u have
Look into that brothers/ sisters eyes and say u love him
Na only tongue e dey

Now back to this topic
The pastors are sent to remote areas
And yes they are to win souls.
But also remember these areas have their traditional churches
From cele to c&s to Methodist to basptist to even their traditional worship and even Islam
It's not like Lagos or the urban areas
It's harder there
When I was in illogbo eremi along badagary express way
When I lost all I had after I came back from the UK
I joined the church there
Common giving of 10,000 naira was a challenge for the church
Cos people over there are super poor

Now this is within Lagos
And the pastor there must give report to the church in ijaniki
He has to show offerings which most times it's not up to 5k
Giving to various ministry departments is another issue
Now imagine inside Lagos ohhh
Now think of ekiti and all these predominantly farming communities

Bros church growth is all encompassing
Membership strength
Tithes and offerings
And seeds

The main church was footing the bills of the pastor and the church rent
But brother the people he was meeting no agree to change church
Also remember the covid lock down made many eyes to wide as many pastors didn't help.
And people understood that all man for himself
A lot of us don't do church anymore
I hardly go to church
Even if I go
These days pastor go they preach I go dey play candy crush

Jesus Christ said a time is coming where people will neither go to the mountains or the temples ( church) but those that worship God will worship him in Spirit and in truth.

That time is now

Col 2 :17 says the things u see are a shadow of the things to come

Our churches messed up
They didn't take advantage of the desire of the souls of the people
They focused mainly on the gospel of Materialism which many termed prosperity

The issue was more about tithe and offerings
U can cover it up all u want but many believers like u can see through the bull shit

My brother God bless you. You have said it all. There is nothing more to add or subtract.
This is the link to the video where the pastor said it the issue is about not being able to generate adequate revenue
https://thenationonlineng.net/video-winners-chapel-sacked-me-40-other-pastors-for-not-generating-enough-income/

ObaKlaz:
On a lighter note, was Saul actually renamed to Paul?

Don't mind him.

Even their Daddy GOs make that mistake with so much confidence.

As i nor dey go church most of my neighbors see me as a sinner

prekumohtim:



Did you plant church for bishop Oyedepo? Are you the one that sent him?
If no , why will he need your advice on how he will run his mission ?
If you think Nigeria is very religious, wait till church Is planted in your house

A typical mental reasoning of a slave

Righteousness2:
The only Abnormal thing in the whole thing is the Pastor who came out on social media to Rant.

Pastors are regularly taken out and replaced from stations. It is worrisome that a Pastor comes out on social media to complain. I really can't understand the kind of things that happen in these Endtimes. I Believe someone misled the young man.

A Pastor who knows and understands his call, will not do this.
A Pastor who knows and Understands his position will invest himself more in the work of GOD and take his matter to GOD. Your calling does not end on Pulpit.

If they sack you from your work that you get your daily bread won't you rant ?

jaymichael:

My brother God bless you. You have said it all. There is nothing more to add or subtract.
This is the link to the video where the pastor said it the issue is about not being able to generate adequate revenue
https://thenationonlineng.net/video-winners-chapel-sacked-me-40-other-pastors-for-not-generating-enough-income/

I have seen it
Guy the churches have lost it
It's painful but it's the truth
Imagine if the missionaries were sacked when they came to Africa
Even that Gideon not to be sold bible
Till date they still send down to us even with our mega churches
But u send person to ekiti for just one or two years
U vex sack am

Gambit23:


Christianity is already in trouble worldwide, A trouble that she will never survive.

Are u daring God?

WarriAproko:
As i nor dey go church most of my neighbors see me as a sinner

They are even more wicked than you are......

I'll leave the below verses of the Bible for those that think more members and 50,000 Church auditorium means "growth index" or spiritual growth.

John 4:21
“Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.

John 4:23
Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.

BluntTheApostle:


I am a former pastor, and I know how the business side of church runs because I also audited finances while pastoring.

If a church spends 1 million on rehabilitating loiterers, they must have gotten a budget of 10 million from their congregations in different branches.

But you cant say every church operate that way.
I’m in support of the way so many churches operate today. Before joining Winners in 1993,I was a member of baptist church. Then financial record of the church was very transparent. Every member used to be aware of every project, budgets and transactions. Considering transparency,I’m thinking of going back to one of the old churches.

Vireani79:


Brother I am also a member of christ embassy alakija ojo

We grew the church from the scratch with pastor Tony ikoku and later his wife late pastor doyin may her soul rest in peace

Now I read all u said that's it's not because of tithe and offering
U talked about how u go out to win souls and bring them to church
Bros let's get this straight
The going out thingy in Christ embassy isn't about winning souls
We only most times 9 out of 10 just invite them and collect their data

Hardly do we really minister to them cos its just a short time every Sunday morning and yes we miss services
So it's not something I am not used to
During the days of pastor Tony way back 2002
We really did win souls
We go to thier houses
We sit with them
We share our clothes
We share our money
We find solutions for them
Jobs ...clothes ..food ...rent ...even health issues
Now when u do that
U truly win this people and they too begin to win people
That's was how Christ embassy ojo was built till it became a mighty church

In the days of sister lilly, dem no born u well not to bring ur report
U go win that soul

U go bring offering
U go bring seeds
Why cos u are made to be involved in the lives of these people u meet

Now saying that how much them wan bring is degrading becos many of us including me
When I came to Christ embassy ojo
I was poor
Broke
Naked

But after I began to worship there
I began to have
I made money and even travelled out to London
Many like me I saw in the UK from same Christ embassy ojo

So it has nothing to do with how much dem wan bring
Cos when God's word hit u right
Things will be right in ur life

But today how is the same ojo
No one cares
Church is now a fashion show
People only care if u have
Look into that brothers/ sisters eyes and say u love him
Na only tongue e dey

Now back to this topic
The pastors are sent to remote areas
And yes they are to win souls.
But also remember these areas have their traditional churches
From cele to c&s to Methodist to basptist to even their traditional worship and even Islam
It's not like Lagos or the urban areas
It's harder there
When I was in illogbo eremi along badagary express way
When I lost all I had after I came back from the UK
I joined the church there
Common giving of 10,000 naira was a challenge for the church
Cos people over there are super poor

Now this is within Lagos
And the pastor there must give report to the church in ijaniki
He has to show offerings which most times it's not up to 5k
Giving to various ministry departments is another issue
Now imagine inside Lagos ohhh
Now think of ekiti and all these predominantly farming communities

Bros church growth is all encompassing
Membership strength
Tithes and offerings
And seeds

The main church was footing the bills of the pastor and the church rent
But brother the people he was meeting no agree to change church
Also remember the covid lock down made many eyes to wide as many pastors didn't help.
And people understood that all man for himself
A lot of us don't do church anymore
I hardly go to church
Even if I go
These days pastor go they preach I go dey play candy crush

Jesus Christ said a time is coming where people will neither go to the mountains or the temples ( church) but those that worship God will worship him in Spirit and in truth.

That time is now

Col 2 :17 says the things u see are a shadow of the things to come

Our churches messed up
They didn't take advantage of the desire of the souls of the people
They focused mainly on the gospel of Materialism which many termed prosperity

The issue was more about tithe and offerings
U can cover it up all u want but many believers like u can see through the bull shit

It is so sad seeing what is happening in churches. So much spiritual decay and lawlessness in the church

Vireani79:


I have seen it
Guy the churches have lost it
It's painful but it's the truth
Imagine if the missionaries were sacked when they came to Africa
Even that Gideon not to be sold bible
Till date they still send down to us even with our mega churches
But u send person to ekiti for just one or two years
U vex sack am

It is good you saw the video to get a better understanding of the whole issue. I had told Ishilove to go see the pastor's videos where "church growth index" was explained to him as not generating adequate income and his branch "running at a loss" isnt acceptable by the church.
This is shameful, a disgrace. This isn't Christianity.

BluntTheApostle:


Don't mind him.

Even their Daddy GOs make that mistake with so much confidence.

. But they won't make mistakes when 'churh growth index' and church expansion are involved!

Am sure this video will grant you more clarification on whether or not we all need to speak in tongues.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv9QviI1aoU

livingchrist:

It is so sad seeing what is happening in churches. So much spiritual decay and lawlessness in the church

Well the problem with the church is it's trying so had to be like the world
Using world index for growth to determine growth
Using worlds indices for soul winning to determine real soul winning
And lastly the demonic spirit of Materialism that has eaten deep into churches
All u hear from pastors like oyedepo is how rich they are
How they did this and that

Not how rich in character their members have become since they began to worship with him

Materialism is the root cause
And that decision was made out of Materialism

jaymichael:
It is good you saw the video to get a better understanding of the whole issue. I had told Ishilove to go see the pastor's videos where "church growth index" was explained to him as not generating adequate income and his branch "running at a loss" isnt acceptable by the church.
This is shameful, a disgrace. This isn't Christianity.

It's the demonic spirit of Materialism

ObaKlaz:
On a lighter note, was Saul actually renamed to Paul?

Yes.

NwaliE01:

Yes.

Wow! Prove that biblically, please.

Vireani79:


Well the problem with the church is it's trying so had to be like the world
Using world index for growth to determine growth
Using worlds indices for soul winning to determine real soul winning
And lastly the demonic spirit of Materialism that has eaten deep into churches
All u hear from pastors like oyedepo is how rich they are
How they did this and that

Not how rich in character their members have become since they began to worship with him

Materialism is the root cause
And that decision was made out of Materialism

humm the love of Money is the root of all evil, mammon worshipping, of course they measure success by the number of materials one can possesses. God have mercy

like1:
The only way they can pick a pastor up and sack him, it's just because they didn't invest heavily in training them.

The only place where the Catholic church gets it right, they train you and ordain you a priest and you are with them forever unless say na u decide to leave.

They post you to a parish and you are not performing, they reassign you to assist a priest in another parish who is performing to learn the ropes. They try you again and still you are not performing, they reassign you, till you get it right.

How can a church throw one of their own under the bus like that, where is the morality? and some people are defending this particular act.

Bro thank you for this piece, I own you a beer if we meet in real life. I just dey watch them with my mouth open. The first day i attended Oyedepo church in ota and I heard him preached I was so convince he is more a business man than a Pastor. He might have started well in the past but now he is a thorough breed businessman than a Pastor.

Most of the you all saying he should not have brought it to the public well if you run your church like a secular organization/business you should also expect backlash like this rearing it head here and there. No love bro simply put they don't give a Bleep about you. You either bring in the raba aka money or get the hell out of this church. There is a saying that go in that church my God is not a poor God as if God was poor before.

Thanks again.

Righteousness2:
The only Abnormal thing in the whole thing is the Pastor who came out on social media to Rant.

Pastors are regularly taken out and replaced from stations. It is worrisome that a Pastor comes out on social media to complain. I really can't understand the kind of things that happen in these Endtimes. I Believe someone misled the young man

A Pastor who knows and understands his call, will not do this.
A Pastor who knows and Understands his position will invest himself more in the work of GOD and take his matter to GOD. Your calling does not end on Pulpit.

The sacked Pastor wanted a Social Media sympathy instead of crying to the Almighty God,who called him!
Has Pastor evercome in contact with Matt 28v19?
Has this Pastor ever read the book of Gospel of John 15v1&2?
No wander, Pastors, Evangelists and Apostles can equally be recruited by Men but not of God!

prekumohtim:


A fig tree was cursed for not bearing fruit despite that it was not in its season. The fig tree could have had a lot of excuse if it were a human cos it was not its season . Yet the Master cursed it not willing to entertain excuses. Have you read about the parables of the The Talents, and what the Master said to the one who couldn't produce fruit ?
Matthew 25:14
Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard

man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed: {25:25} And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, [there] thou hast [that is] thine. {25:26} His lord answered and said unto him, [Thou] wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed: {25:27} Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and [then] at my coming I should have received mine own with usury. {25:28} Take therefore the talent from him, and give [it] unto him which hath ten talents. {25:29} For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath. {25:30} And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Bro, you are misinterpreting these parables.

Let us take them one at a time.


The Parable of the Barren Fig Tree

This parable was talking about repentance, not soul-winning or church growth.

How did I know this?

Because Christ had just talked about repentance, and was using the parable of the barren fig tree to illustrate.

The fig tree was first used in the Old Testament as a symbol for the children of Israel. When Christ used it again, He was referring to the Israelites to whom Christ had originally been sent. But the Israelites rejected Christ which is why He extended Grace to the Gentiles.



The Parable of the Talents

Christ was talking about the End Times which not even He (Christ) knows the day or hour.

How do I know this?

Because in Matthew 24, just before Christ told the Parable of the Talents (in Matthew 25), Christ was talking about the End Times, and in Matthew 25, He likened it to the End Times.

None of these parables had anything to do with church growth.

In fact, nowhere in the Bible is it written that you will go to Hell for not winning souls.

Nonsense talk!

You all can twist the letter anyhow you want with your Reno Omokri but to me its still about money(tithe and offering)

Winning souls my foot

Is it not more souls(people) more tithes and offering?

It's a basic and simple mathematics na

Indirectly obtaining people

Ishilove:
This submission from Hymar Idibie David encapsulates my thoughts.


https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=4384095461629254&id=100000865297273

Righteousness2:
The only Abnormal thing in the whole thing is the Pastor who came out on social media to Rant.

Pastors are regularly taken out and replaced from stations. It is worrisome that a Pastor comes out on social media to complain. I really can't understand the kind of things that happen in these Endtimes. I Believe someone misled the young man.

A Pastor who knows and understands his call, will not do this.
A Pastor who knows and Understands his position will invest himself more in the work of GOD and take his matter to GOD. Your calling does not end on Pulpit.

Gbam

emerged01:

But you cant say every church operate that way.
I’m in support of the way so many churches operate today. Before joining Winners in 1993,I was a member of baptist church. Then financial record of the church was very transparent. Every member used to be aware of every project, budgets and transactions. Considering transparency,I’m thinking of going back to one of the old churches.

That is how all of them operate that is why they don't want to be regulated.

They all have skeletons in their cupboards, and that is why they only allow internal auditors close to their accounts.

It was never about tithe and offering,but people don't sit down to read all they do is to comment negatively because it is about the church..

In every organisation growth is expected which is normal in every aspect.

If i owns a company and my company isn't experiencing any form of growth probably it calls for lots of concerns.

...Feast in Heaven
Sorry I thought you're a Christian... let's leave it.

BluntTheApostle:


That is the Parable of the Great Banquet.

It was directed at the Jews who were the ones originally invited to the Feast in Heaven.

The Jews made excuses, and Christ (the master) extended His hands to the Gentiles.

Nowhere in that Parable did the master tell the servants, "bring people to my house or be relieved of your duty"

If the Gentiles had also failed to come, Christ would have raised the stones, not sack the servants.

ObaKlaz:
. But they won't make mistakes when 'churh growth index' and church expansion are involved!

It is all about the money for these folks

The more people you bring into church, the more the revenue...

But wait, if he brought more people and they all turned out to be stingy people or too poor to give offerings - will he still be sacked?

Alternatively,

If he had a small number of people and they were all billionaires, would he still be sacked?

Supreme01:
...Feast in Heaven
Sorry I thought you're a Christian... let's leave it.

What don't you understand?

The Parable of the Great Banquet illustrates the original purpose of God which was to bring Salvation to the Jews so that they can make Heaven (likened to a feast).

The invited guests (the Jews) gave excuses not to attend the banquet, and the master (Christ) asked His servants to go to the street (the Gentiles) instead.

benqo01:
It was never about tithe and offering,but people don't sit down to read all they do is to comment negatively because it is about the church..

In every organisation growth is expected which is normal in every aspect.

If i owns a company and my company isn't experiencing any form of growth probably it calls for lots of concerns.

Define "growth".

Because growth can even be unnoticeable.

A church with 10 genuine worshippers has witnessed more growth than a church with 100 bench warmers.