TenQ:

I have brought the disclaimer of the Qur'an out several times in this thread.

The WHOLE of the Qur'an is a LIE, a FABRICATION of an impostor and false prophet called Mohammed aka Qutham!

And I gave you reasons which you have not objected to.

1. Is it untrue that the Qur'an is filled with errors impossible for God to make?

Examples:
1. Allah dictated the Qur'an isn't it: then he must be perfect without errors. However, when Allah says women have sperms coming from their chest one and men have sperms from their backbone, we wonder if the author of the Qur'an was God.

2. If Allah can claim that the Sun sets in murky waters, we wonder if he can be God!
A proof that the Quran is the work of an unlearned Arabian man

3. If Allah can tell the story of Solomon Dieing for almost a year while standing with his walking stick, we think this is silly!

4. Have you heard of the legend of the Seven Sleepers? How come Allah copied a known fable and put it in the Qur'an without acknowledging the monk who wrote the original story?

Are these untrue statement about your Qur'an?




2. The author of the Qur'an even when introduced himself in the Qur'an as Mohammed

So, you can see clearly that the Qur'an is the Words of Mohammed
Qur'an 69:40
Indeed, the Qur'an is the word of a noble Messenger.

gaskiyamagana:


STORY! STORY!! STORY!!!
Was this is your answer or respond to simple and straight forward question of manipulation, interpolation, adulteration and falsification of VAIN for LIE as key word in JEREMIAH 8:8?

gaskiyamagana:


Story , story, story
What does Qur'an is the Word of Muhammad has to do with Jesus disclaiming you before Almighty Allah, the main issue I am handling with you, and of which you have tried hard to divert attention with absolutely irrelevant matter of your hatred -combined ignorant ?

SIRTee15:
The funny thing is modern day Muslims are the ones destroying Muhammad reputation by pushing words into his mouth when Muhammad himself had absolved himself of all his mistakes when on earth.

Muhammad clearly told his followers that he's only human and thus deficient in general knowledge, so they should take his non religious comments with pinch of salt.
Muhammed told his followers that if they notice what he said was wrong, they should ignore the nonsense and do what they know is right.

This is in the authentic book of hadith, sahih muslim

Muhammad had advised his followers certain way of growing date palm but that caused negative effect on the crops. When the companions asked the Prophet about it, he said they have to take from him what relates to the religion, while for what relates to this worldly affairs or general knowledge, they can use their wisdom, knowledge and judgement.

The narration in Sahih Muslim is as follows:

After arriving in Medina, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) passed by some people who were fecundating some date palms, so he asked them what they were doing. When they told him, he said, “I don’t think that will provide any benefit,” or in another narration, “It would be better if you didn’t do that.”

So they refrained from doing it, and that year the crop was not as good. They mentioned it to him (peace and blessings be upon him), and he replied:

“I am only a human: if I command you to do something in your religion, then take it; but if I tell you to do something based on personal opinion, then [realize] that I am only human,” and in another narration, “Yet if I inform you of something from Allah, then do it, for indeed I will never convey an untruth on behalf of Allah Mighty and Majestic,” and in yet another narration, “You know better of your worldly affairs.”

Sahih Muslim, Sunan Ibn Maja, Sahih Ibn Hibban, Musnad Ahmed and other sources.

From above, it's clear Muhammed gave a sensible and pragmatic response to his goofs in the Qur'an and hadiths which is I don't know it all.
Unfortunately, modern day Muslims have rejected Muhammed's answer and created their own answers that have only drawn criticism to the name of their prophet.
On the judgement day, Muhammed will condemn all Muslims who has rejected his good answer and brought mockery to his name.
Muslims should stop speaking for Muhammed, he already spoke for himself regarding his mistakes. You guys are not helping him, u simply making things worse.

If Muhammed said the sun sets in murky waters and now we know that is not true, Muslims should just admit Muhammad goofed and let it be.
If Muhammad said the semen comes from the backbone and now we know that's incorrect. Muslims should desist from manipulating his words and accept what he said was wrong.

Providing us with the prophet's correct answer will prevent many endless argument we have both online and offline re Muhammed.
Just tell us Muhammed made a mistake when he said this or that; it is an acceptable answer and we will all move on, instead of making excuse for him.
On judgement day, Muhammed will condemn many modern day Muslims who continue to twist his words when he never told them to do so.


It's ironic a Christian is the one reminding Muslims to follow the teaching of their prophet....very ironic.



Cc
To our Muslims friends on nairaland:
LegalWolf Vanessa7 AntiChristian Empiree, Rash4ductluv, BabaHeekmat, Haekymbahd, motayoayinde, drlateef, Thatfairguy1, MrCodeSolo , Hisbah21, thatsleepboy1 , Lordmoh , OBALOLA55, x123xlolls , Lukuluku69 , mhmsadyq, Ibsaq , Herkeym001 , Sulasa07 , hakeemhakeem , abduljabbar4 ,olaalekan ,Friend22 , uthlaw , Exc2000 , AbuTwins ,Akhirastriver ,Akinbahm , Sino , KayB , youngdroly , jaggabban , ukeleh , Realismailakabir , Bami8064 Greatgr , Gaskiyamagana Compton11 , Alfarouq , MrCodeSolo Satmaniac saintHot, drlateef, Donkmore
Akinbahm , IMEI , FATHAT , talk2hb1 , iamrealdeji , Encyclopedia1 , Raheeqilmaktoom , Bintdawood , Flanker , Raheeqilmaktoom , rolams , honesttalk21

TenQ:


This is an event for the future at Judgement. There will be the witnesses.

There are revelations in the Bible aren't they?




Just to prove that this is a Fabrication, can you tell us
1. What happened when Allah asked if Jesus was told if he had told his people to take her mother and himself as partners with Allah
2. Who was there as evidence among the disciples of Jesus for this conversation between Allah and Jesus

I am sure you don't have an answer.

Solomon pbuh was really favoured and reverred by even the Jinn (beings not seen by man) that failed to understand he was no more until the wooden staff he leaned on rotted away and his corpse fell.

Solomon – peace be upon Him – recruited a group of Jinns to accomplish the task and they then began to build the Masjid, but the construction had not yet come to an end and the time of his death came close while the construction was still in pending. He prayed to Allah Almighty not to disclose his death on the Jinns, so that they continue to build and the belief about them to have the knowledge of unseen may also be falsified. After making this prayer he entered the arch as he usually would do, he stood up with the aid of his staff and engaged in worship . He died in this state but the Jinn labourers continued to do the work thinking that he is busy at worship . He remained in this state for a long period of time which did not send any suspicion to the group of Jinns because usually he would continue to worship for a month or two without moving from his spot. He remained standing for 1 year after his demise with the aid of his staff until the insects began to eat his stick and then his body was lowered. Then only did all the Jinns as well as the humans came to know that he has passed away.

Haven't there been discoveries of bodies apart from those deliberately preserved as mummified not decaying.



The WHOLE of the Qur'an is a LIE, a FABRICATION of an impostor and false prophet called Mohammed aka Qutham!

And I gave you reasons which you have not objected to.

1. Is it untrue that the Qur'an is filled with errors impossible for God to make?

Examples:
1. Allah dictated the Qur'an isn't it: then he must be perfect without errors. However, when Allah says women have sperms coming from their chest one and men have sperms from their backbone, we wonder if the author of the Qur'an was God.

2. If Allah can claim that the Sun sets in murky waters, we wonder if he can be God!
A proof that the Quran is the work of an unlearned Arabian man

3. If Allah can tell the story of Solomon Dieing for almost a year while standing with his walking stick, we think this is silly!

4. Have you heard of the legend of the Seven Sleepers? How come Allah copied a known fable and put it in the Qur'an without acknowledging the monk who wrote the original story?

Are these untrue statement about your Qur'an?




2. The author of the Qur'an even when introduced himself in the Qur'an as Mohammed

So, you can see clearly that the Qur'an is the Words of Mohammed
Qur'an 69:40
Indeed, the Qur'an is the word of a noble Messenger.

honesttalk21:
@TENQ
And ˹on Judgment Day˺ Allah will say, “O Jesus, son of Mary! Did you ever ask the people to worship you and your mother as gods besides Allah?”

He (Jesus pbuh) will answer, “Glory be to You! How could I ever say what I had no right to say? If I had said such a thing, you would have certainly known it. You know what is ˹hidden˺ within me, but I do not know what is within You. Indeed, You ˹alone˺ are the Knower of all unseen.

honesttalk21:
@TENQ
And ˹on Judgment Day˺ Allah will say, “O Jesus, son of Mary! Did you ever ask the people to worship you and your mother as gods besides Allah?”

He (Jesus pbuh) will answer, “Glory be to You! How could I ever say what I had no right to say? If I had said such a thing, you would have certainly known it. You know what is ˹hidden˺ within me, but I do not know what is within You. Indeed, You ˹alone˺ are the Knower of all unseen.

honesttalk21:
The fable of the sleepers as you say is believed by some orthodox Christians and the Catholics who you say are scarcely different from muslims.


During the persecution of Christians (250 CE) under the Roman emperor Decius, seven (or eight in some versions) Christian soldiers were concealed near their native city of Ephesus in a cave to which the entry was later sealed. There, having protected themselves from being forced to do pagan sacrifices, they fell into a miraculous sleep. During the reign (408–450 CE) of the Eastern Roman emperor Theodosius II, the cave was reopened, and the Sleepers awoke. The emperor was moved by their miraculous presence and by their witness to their Christian doctrine of the body’s resurrection. Having explained the profound meaning of their experience, the Seven died, whereupon Theodosius ordered their remains to be richly enshrined, and he absolved all bishops who had been persecuted for believing in the Resurrection.

Reports of history are subject to some bias most times.
Allah knows best

honesttalk21:
COPIED

copied the following information from Wikipedia: ‎

“Descent of the Testes

At an early period of fetal life the testes are placed at the back part of the ‎abdominal cavity. ‎The descent of the testes consists of the opening of a connection from the testis ‎to its final location at the anterior abdominal wall, followed by the development of ‎the gubernaculum, which subsequently pulls and translocates the testis down ‎into the developing scrotum. ‎

Descent of the Ovaries

Just as in the male, there is a gubernaculum in the female, which effects a ‎considerable change in the position of the ovary, though not so extensive a ‎change as in that of the testis.”
In this case the origin of these gonads is from that area in the back of the abdominal cavity between the ribs and the vertebral column (backbone).

Truly, Allah knows best.

Then Allah says, He is created from a water gushing forth which means, the sexual fluid that comes out bursting forth from the man and the woman. Thus, the child is produced from both of them by the permission of Allah. Due to this Allah says,
Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs. The backbone (or loins) of the man and the ribs of the woman, which is referring to her chest. Shabib bin Bishr reported from `Ikrimah who narrated from Ibn `Abbas that he said,

Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs."The backbone of the man and the ribs of the woman. It (the fluid) is yellow and fine in texture. The child will not be born except from both of them (i.e., their sexual fluids).
Ibn Kathir Quran 86:6-7

TenQ:

Just to prove that this is a Fabrication, can you tell us
1. What happened when Allah asked if Jesus was told if he had told his people to take her mother and himself as partners with Allah
2. Who was there as evidence among the disciples of Jesus for this conversation between Allah and Jesus

I am sure you don't have an answer.



The WHOLE of the Qur'an is a LIE, a FABRICATION of an impostor and false prophet called Mohammed aka Qutham!

And I gave you reasons which you have not objected to.

1. Is it untrue that the Qur'an is filled with errors impossible for God to make?

Examples:
1. Allah dictated the Qur'an isn't it: then he must be perfect without errors. However, when Allah says women have sperms coming from their chest one and men have sperms from their backbone, we wonder if the author of the Qur'an was God.

2. If Allah can claim that the Sun sets in murky waters, we wonder if he can be God!
A proof that the Quran is the work of an unlearned Arabian man

3. If Allah can tell the story of Solomon Dieing for almost a year while standing with his walking stick, we think this is silly!

4. Have you heard of the legend of the Seven Sleepers? How come Allah copied a known fable and put it in the Qur'an without acknowledging the monk who wrote the original story?

Are these untrue statement about your Qur'an?




2. The author of the Qur'an even when introduced himself in the Qur'an as Mohammed

So, you can see clearly that the Qur'an is the Words of Mohammed
Qur'an 69:40
Indeed, the Qur'an is the word of a noble Messenger.

LegalWolf:
Heyyy potential thief TenQ

I know you must be brimming with pride that this topic has amassed 9 pages! Fantabulous! T

hat people could spare their time debating with an slowpoke beats my imagination.. or it doesn't?

For me, I have a question for your: who is the greatest thief of the 21st century? Most of the renowned thieves I know died in the previous century but there is none of renown repute in our age... or don't you relish the rear privilege of wearing that crown?

Hugs, from your ONLY nairaland wolf

TenQ:

Thanks you're at least able to speak since your last flogging on NL.
Whenever you have totally recovered and you need a little more spanking, come to any of my page.
Till then, your Only Nemesis on Nairaland TenQ

honesttalk21:


SirTee15, interesting arguments you put up however you tend to place emphasis on the wrong end.
[b]If there is any use of it, then they should do it, for it was just a personal opinion of mine, and do not go after my personal opinion;
but when I say to you anything on behalf of Allah, then do accept it, for I do not attribute lie to Allah, the Exalted and Glorious.[color=#006600][/color]


This emphasises that none is perfect but Allah and he Muhammad is also human. Further review shows that he encourages use of intellect and freewill with the caveat of not specifically going against a direct command of Allah.

I ponder where the problem really lies. Truth be told endless debates on issues are often time wasting and hardly productive. Your scholarship is highly commended and at the peak we are driven a little beyond shear logic to the paths we choose.

I wish you well. Thanks.

honesttalk21:
COPIED

copied the following information from Wikipedia: ‎

“Descent of the Testes

At an early period of fetal life the testes are placed at the back part of the ‎abdominal cavity. ‎The descent of the testes consists of the opening of a connection from the testis ‎to its final location at the anterior abdominal wall, followed by the development of ‎the gubernaculum, which subsequently pulls and translocates the testis down ‎into the developing scrotum. ‎

Descent of the Ovaries

Just as in the male, there is a gubernaculum in the female, which effects a ‎considerable change in the position of the ovary, though not so extensive a ‎change as in that of the testis.”
In this case the origin of these gonads is from that area in the back of the abdominal cavity between the ribs and the vertebral column (backbone).

Truly, Allah knows best.

Then Allah says, He is created from a water gushing forth which means, the sexual fluid that comes out bursting forth from the man and the woman. Thus, the child is produced from both of them by the permission of Allah. Due to this Allah says,
Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs. The backbone (or loins) of the man and the ribs of the woman, which is referring to her chest. Shabib bin Bishr reported from `Ikrimah who narrated from Ibn `Abbas that he said,

Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs."The backbone of the man and the ribs of the woman. It (the fluid) is yellow and fine in texture. The child will not be born except from both of them (i.e., their sexual fluids).
Ibn Kathir Quran 86:6-7

SIRTee15:


Are u a medical doctor? if not, there's no need wasting my time on this with u.
But I will advise u to be careful about making claims u cant defend.
u can ask drlateef about his own experience, it wasnt funny.

drlateef:




What was not funny. I found you people crazy, denying facts of embryology. I can’t even believe bringing myself so low as to be discussing embryology with nitwits.

SIRTee15:


Are u a medical doctor? if not, there's no need wasting my time on this with u.
But I will advise u to be careful about making claims u cant defend.
u can ask drlateef about his own experience, it wasnt funny.

honesttalk21:
Interesting you refer me to drlateef instead of stating what exactly the problem is.
Anyway this should broaden your thinking and pardon my responses.

This view is not a scientific error. In fact, around 70% of the ejaculatory fluid that contains sperm comes from the seminal vesicles, which are parallel to the backbone, and around 20% from the prostrate and 5% from the bulbourethral gland which are in the loin area.

https://sapienceinstitute.org/does-the-quran-make-a-mistake-on-where-semen-or-sperm-is-produced/#:~:text=This%20view%20is%20not%20a,are%20in%20the%20loin%20area.

These sort of discussions are often endless and hardly of value.
In response to your question on how all that affects my practice of Islam do pardon my sharing some information seen on the matter. You see the bold indication of COPIED.

Imam at-Tabari said:
The taraib refers to the place where the necklace goes on a woman’s chest.
Imam al-Qurtubi said:
The taraa’ib of a woman, which is the place where her necklace goes,
Imam al-Qurtubi said:
The taraa’ib of a woman, which is the place where her necklace goes,
al-Haafiz Ibn Katheer in his Tafseer said:
The taraib refers to the place where the necklace goes on a woman’s chest.

honesttalk21:
Interesting you refer me to drlateef instead of stating what exactly the problem is.
Anyway this should broaden your thinking and pardon my responses.

This view is not a scientific error. In fact, around 70% of the ejaculatory fluid that contains sperm comes from the seminal vesicles, which are parallel to the backbone, and around 20% from the prostrate and 5% from the bulbourethral gland which are in the loin area.

https://sapienceinstitute.org/does-the-quran-make-a-mistake-on-where-semen-or-sperm-is-produced/#:~:text=This%20view%20is%20not%20a,are%20in%20the%20loin%20area.

These sort of discussions are often endless and hardly of value.
In response to your question on how all that affects my practice of Islam do pardon my sharing some information seen on the matter. You see the bold indication of COPIED.

SIRTee15:


The seminar vesicle, the bulbo urethral gland and the prostate are organs located very deep into the pelvis close to the bladder. That are not anywhere located in the backbone area, in fact none of them have any contact with the backbone whatsoever.
The prostate sits directly under the bladder, that's why people who have prostate problem have problem passing urine. The other 2 structures are adjacent to the prostate. They are in not in any way related to the loin or backbone.
The loin is the side of the abdomen also called flanks. That's where the kidney is located.
The picture below makes it clear

honesttalk21:

It is important to note that the word for the backbone in the Arabic language includes the tailbone or coccyx.

SIRTee15:


The coccyx is part of the back bone and the bulbo urethral gland, prostate, seminal vesicles are not in any way related to it.
Check my previous post, I've updated.

honesttalk21:
The coccyx acts as one insertion point for the muscles of the pelvic floor, a group of three muscles called levator ani at the apex, the coccygeus muscle across the anterior (front) surface, and the gluteus maximus in the female reproductive system.

The pelvic cavity in males houses the reproductive organs which include the ductus deferens, seminal vesicles, ejaculatory ducts, and prostate. These organs are all important in the transportation and protection of sperm cells as they move from the testis to eventually reach the penis.

As to your reference to Joshua 10. There are places when there are much longer days or night time. The prayer appears to be one for there to be sufficient lighting to enable victory of the soldiers over their enemies.

SIRTee15:


So I don't get it. What does pelvic floor muscles has to do with semen production. Did the Koran mention pelvic floor muscles? What is the role of pelvic floor muscles in semen production. If a man has defect in pelvic floor muscles, can he still ejaculate?
What we see here is what we call 'forced association with dubious intent'.
This is what Muhammad said
[i]86:5. "Now let man but think from what he is created! He is created from a drop emitted. Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs."
Now the description above is clearly stating the semen proceeds from the thoracic cavity. Of course, that's nonsense.
So modern Muslims have moved the goalpost in a bid to force anatomy into the Koran.
First it was kidney, then backbone, then coccyx, then pelvic muscle wall and finally the prostate. Gbam, the verse finally makes sense.

My reference to Joshua 10 was about sun standing still, we Christians understand the exegesis regarding the verse.

Besides can u explain to me why u think the bulbourethral gland is located in the loin.

honesttalk21:
Oh My! Like your note on Joshua 10 and exegesis.

The verse refers to fluid and not sperm, and the fluid comes from between the backbone or loins and the ribs. Even if the Qur’ān were referring to sperm, the sperm is created in the testes which are located between the loins and the ribs.


The verse refers to the baby emerging from the mother’s womb, which is located between the backbone or loins and the ribs.


The verse refers to the man and woman engaged in sexual intercourse, by which the ejaculatory fluid is issued between them during intercourse.

SIRTee15:


The testes is not located btw the loin and the rib. Where are u getting all this from.

I corrected u that the loin is the side of the abdomen, yet u came here to say the testes is in the loin.

Your testes is in your scrotum, how's that in your loin or ribs. You don't even have to be a medical practitioner to know that, it's common sense.
That's why I said initially I don't want to debate this with u if u not a medical practitioner.

The Joshua 10.12-13 talked about sun standing still for their to be daylight. We Christians don't about re interpreting or forcing science into the verse, we simply say it's language of observation based on limited knowledge of the time

You Muslims should learn to do the same.

SIRTee15:


The testes is not located btw the loin and the rib. Where are u getting all this from.

I corrected u that the loin is the side of the abdomen, yet u came here to say the testes is in the loin.

Your testes is in your scrotum, how's that in your loin or ribs. You don't even have to be a medical practitioner to know that, it's common sense.
That's why I said initially I don't want to debate this with u if u not a medical practitioner.

The Joshua 10.12-13 talked about sun standing still for their to be daylight. We Christians don't about re interpreting or forcing science into the verse, we simply say it's language of observation based on limited knowledge of the time

You Muslims should learn to do the same.

SIRTee15:


The testes is not located btw the loin and the rib. Where are u getting all this from.

I corrected u that the loin is the side of the abdomen, yet u came here to say the testes is in the loin.

Your testes is in your scrotum, how's that in your loin or ribs. You don't even have to be a medical practitioner to know that, it's common sense.
That's why I said initially I don't want to debate this with u if u not a medical practitioner.

The Joshua 10.12-13 talked about sun standing still for their to be daylight. We Christians don't about re interpreting or forcing science into the verse, we simply say it's language of observation based on limited knowledge of the time

You Muslims should learn to do the same.

honesttalk21:
https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Human-body-loins-en.svg