drlateef:




I will just limit myself to answering one question at a time, just as I advised you.

That wasn't me o!

drlateef:




I will just limit myself to answering one question at a time, just as I advised you.

1. You asked if I agree that semen is from back bone.
Answer is YES. The Quran chapter 86:5. Says:

"Now let man but think from what he is created! He is created from a drop emitted. Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs."

My knowledge of human embryology perfectly situates the origin of testes which produce sperm to be correctly situated at the junction of L1 vertebra where the germinal ridge arises from the side of notochord in human embryo during the stage of organogenesis. These testes then descend into scrotal sacs around the time of birth. All trained doctors must have heard about undescended testes. This is an abnormality of descent which clearly shows that testes do not originate from scrotal sac but descend into scrotal sac from their origin. That origin has been accurately described anatomically and embryologically by Allah the owner of mankind. This is enough miracle for you because no scientists had prior knowledge of that before the Quran was revealed. And the Quran was revealed to an illiterate of all people. Even knowledgeable people at the time had no such knowledge.

Your next question?

Using this same logic, can you explain how the reproductive fluids of the woman come from her taraib

You've been truthful mostly till this moment of your Taqqiya.

TenQ:

Using this same logic, can you explain how the reproductive fluids of the woman come from her taraib

You've been truthful mostly till this moment of your Taqqiya.

The female ovaries also arise from same origin but the cells differentiate into ovaries. Then the mulerian duct drag the ovaries to the iliac fosa area in the ovarian bed. That’s why the blood supply and nerve supply to testes and ovaries arise from the same L1 region of back bone.

TenQ:


That wasn't me o!

Read my answers to him

drlateef:



Read my answers to him

Okay!

drlateef:




The female ovaries also arise from same origin but the cells differentiate into ovaries. Then the mulerian duct drag the ovaries to the iliac fosa area in the ovarian bed. That’s why the blood supply and nerve supply to testes and ovaries arise from the same L1 region of back bone.

Do you know where the female bone of the taraib is?

I think you don't. Please check the Arabic dictionary!

TenQ:

Do you know where the female bone of the taraib is?

I think you don't. Please check the Arabic dictionary!

Dont tell me half story, what do you mean by bone of Taraib? Give me the hadith or Quran verse you refer to.

drlateef:




I will just limit myself to answering one question at a time, just as I advised you.

1. You asked if I agree that semen is from back bone.
Answer is YES. The Quran chapter 86:5. Says:

"Now let man but think from what he is created! He is created from a drop emitted. Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs."

My knowledge of human embryology perfectly situates the origin of testes which produce sperm to be correctly situated at the junction of L1 vertebra where the germinal ridge arises from the side of notochord in human embryo during the stage of organogenesis. These testes then descend into scrotal sacs around the time of birth. All trained doctors must have heard about undescended testes. This is an abnormality of descent which clearly shows that testes do not originate from scrotal sac but descend into scrotal sac from their origin. That origin has been accurately described anatomically and embryologically by Allah the owner of mankind. This is enough miracle for you because no scientists had prior knowledge of that before the Quran was revealed. And the Quran was revealed to an illiterate of all people. Even knowledgeable people at the time had no such knowledge.

Your next question?

Okay fair enough.
Now let's thrash this fallacy out that the testis is related to the spine. Mr dokita.
The embryogenesis of the testis arise from the Germinal ridge which is from the mesothelial layer of the peritoneum. The other continuous structure is the mesonephros and not the notochord.
At first, the mesonephros and gonadal ridge are continuous, but as the embryo grows the gonadal ridge gradually becomes pinched off from the mesonephros but carries some cells from the latter.
So in simple terms, the testes is from the abdominal sac and the kidney tissues. It has nothing to do with the back bone.
The development of the spine from the notochord and neural tissue is completely different and not in anyway related to gonadal development.

Some of your smarter scholars had claimed since the testis comes from the kidney which is located close to the backbone, then Mohammed is right.
But the kidney is not the backbone nor the rib, and that they are closely situated doesn't mean it's the same thing.
Dokita, maybe u want to try harder. I know it's a long time but look for your sadler textbook, dust it out and read it, them come back and give a better explanation.

Integrity of the Qur'an and Muhammad is at stake here.

drlateef:

Dont tell me half story, what do you mean by bone of Taraib? Give me the hadith or Quran verse you refer to.

I asked the question:
Do you know where the female bone of the taraib is?

1. Imam at-Tabari (may Allah have mercy on him) said: The commentators differed as to what is meant by at-taraa’ib and where they are located. Some said that the word at-taraa’ib refers to the place where the necklace goes on a woman’s chest. This was narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas, ‘Ikrimah and others.

2. Then he – i.e., at-Tabari (may Allah have mercy on him) – said: The correct view concerning that, in our opinion, is the view of those who said that it is the place where the necklace goes on a woman’s chest, because that is the well-known usage in the Arabic language and in Arabic poetry.

This view that was favoured by the imam of the mufassireen (Qur’an commentators), that what is meant is a man’s backbone and the taraa’ib of a woman, which is the place where her necklace goes, is also the view that was favoured by Imam al-Qurtubi in his Tafseer (16/343, 5/20) and by al-Haafiz Ibn Katheer in his Tafseer (8/375). It was also favoured by al-‘Allaamah Muhammad al-Ameen ash-Shanqeeti (may Allah have mercy on him) who said:

It should be noted that Allah has explained that some this water, which is the nutfah (sperm drop), comes from the sulb, i.e., it is the man’s water, and some of it comes from the taraa’ib, i.e., it is the woman’s water. This is what is referred to in these verses in which Allah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“So let man see from what he is created!
He is created from a water gushing forth
Proceeding from between the back-bone (as-sulb) and the ribs (at-taraa’ib)”
[at-Taariq 86:5-7].

So, again:
Using this same logic, can you explain how the reproductive fluids of the woman come from her taraib

drlateef:




I will just limit myself to answering one question at a time, just as I advised you.

1. You asked if I agree that semen is from back bone.
Answer is YES. The Quran chapter 86:5. Says:

"Now let man but think from what he is created! He is created from a drop emitted. Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs."


Your next question?

Besides you guys are just doing fraudulent gymnastic for Muhammed. Muhammed said the sperm proceeds from the backbone and the ribs.
Location of testis is common knowledge in ancient Arabia, they know people with crushed testis will be infertile. But what they don't know is how it relates to semen production or fertility.
So Muhammed wasn't confused when he said the semen proceeds from between the backbone and ribs.
He simply wanted to prove he was from God by making bogus statements to deceive ignorant folks. Unfortunately he failed.
The sperm proceeds from the testis and not in between the back bone and the ribs.

SIRTee15:


Besides you guys are just doing fraudulent gymnastic for Muhammed. Muhammed said the sperm proceeds from the backbone and the ribs.
Location of testis is common knowledge in ancient Arabia, they know people with crushed testis will be infertile. But what they don't know is how it relates to semen production or fertility.
So Muhammed wasn't confused when he said the semen proceeds from between the backbone and ribs.
He simply wanted to prove he was from God by making bogus statements to deceive ignorant folks. Unfortunately he failed.
The sperm proceeds from the testis and not in between the back bone and the ribs.

Needless to answer ignorant ones. Go and make your research.

TenQ:


I asked the question:
Do you know where the female bone of the taraib is?

1. Imam at-Tabari (may Allah have mercy on him) said: The commentators differed as to what is meant by at-taraa’ib and where they are located. Some said that the word at-taraa’ib refers to the place where the necklace goes on a woman’s chest. This was narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas, ‘Ikrimah and others.

2. Then he – i.e., at-Tabari (may Allah have mercy on him) – said: The correct view concerning that, in our opinion, is the view of those who said that it is the place where the necklace goes on a woman’s chest, because that is the well-known usage in the Arabic language and in Arabic poetry.

This view that was favoured by the imam of the mufassireen (Qur’an commentators), that what is meant is a man’s backbone and the taraa’ib of a woman, which is the place where her necklace goes, is also the view that was favoured by Imam al-Qurtubi in his Tafseer (16/343, 5/20) and by al-Haafiz Ibn Katheer in his Tafseer (8/375). It was also favoured by al-‘Allaamah Muhammad al-Ameen ash-Shanqeeti (may Allah have mercy on him) who said:

It should be noted that Allah has explained that some this water, which is the nutfah (sperm drop), comes from the sulb, i.e., it is the man’s water, and some of it comes from the taraa’ib, i.e., it is the woman’s water. This is what is referred to in these verses in which Allah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“So let man see from what he is created!
He is created from a water gushing forth
Proceeding from between the back-bone (as-sulb) and the ribs (at-taraa’ib)”
[at-Taariq 86:5-7].

So, again:
Using this same logic, can you explain how the reproductive fluids of the woman come from her taraib

Those verses are referring to area between the backbone and last rib. That is L1 region. I have already explained this to you. That that is where both the sperm and ovaries originate from, in both males and females.

drlateef:




Those verses are referring to area between the backbone and last rib. That is L1 region. I have already explained this to you. That that is where both the sperm and ovaries originate from, in both males and females.

Clearly No sir!
This was exactly why I asked you the Question:


Do you know where the female bone of the taraib is?

Of course you don't. You assumed it should be


Imam at-Tabari said:
The taraib refers to the place where the necklace goes on a woman’s chest.
Imam al-Qurtubi said:
The taraa’ib of a woman, which is the place where her necklace goes,
Imam al-Qurtubi said:
The taraa’ib of a woman, which is the place where her necklace goes,
al-Haafiz Ibn Katheer in his Tafseer said:
The taraib refers to the place where the necklace goes on a woman’s chest.

Checking sir, this is NOT even close to L1 to L5 sir as it is the ring bones close to the neckline where woman's chains would have hung.

Except you are tellinge that ALL these your esteemed scholars are WRONG and you Dr Lateef is the correct one.


You are bursted my dear. Let's move on to the second issue.



1. If the Qur'an is from God, why does it say the sun set in some murky waters?

TenQ:

Clearly No sir!
This was exactly why I asked you the Question:


Do you know where the female bone of the taraib is?

Of course you don't. You assumed it should be


Imam at-Tabari said:
The taraib refers to the place where the necklace goes on a woman’s chest.
Imam al-Qurtubi said:
The taraa’ib of a woman, which is the place where her necklace goes,
Imam al-Qurtubi said:
The taraa’ib of a woman, which is the place where her necklace goes,
al-Haafiz Ibn Katheer in his Tafseer said:
The taraib refers to the place where the necklace goes on a woman’s chest.

Checking sir, this is NOT even close to L1 to L5 sir as it is the ring bones close to the neckline where woman's chains would have hung.

Except you are tellinge that ALL these your esteemed scholars are WRONG and you Dr Lateef is the correct one.


You are bursted my dear. Let's move on to the second issue.



1. If the Qur'an is from God, why does it say the sun set in some murky waters?

Is any of those commentators are doctor? Are they not confused because they are not doctors? Even till today, its only doctors who understand those verses and what Allah refers to. But you choose to follow the ignorant ones as it suits your purpose.

drlateef:


Is any of those commentators are doctor? Are they not confused because they are not doctors? Even till today, its only doctors who understand those verses and what Allah refers to. But you choose to follow the ignorant ones as it suits your purpose.

Leave TenQ alone...he's not in the medical field.
Discuss embryology with someone who knows what he's talking about.

Disprove the below....

The embryogenesis of the testis arise from the Germinal ridge which is from the mesothelial layer of the peritoneum. The other continuous structure is the mesonephros and not the notochord.
At first, the mesonephros and gonadal ridge are continuous, but as the embryo grows the gonadal ridge gradually becomes pinched off from the mesonephros but carries some cells from the latter.
So in simple terms, the testes is from the abdominal sac and the kidney tissues. It has nothing to do with the back bone.
The development of the spine from the notochord and neural tissue is completely different and not in anyway related to gonadal development.


Integrity of the Qur'an and Muhammad is at stake here.

drlateef:




Needless to answer ignorant ones. Go and make your research.

I already did my research and replied u.
Leave issue of ignorance alone, we all here to learn.
Why did Muhammed claim semen proceeds from the backbone?

Even though TenQ may not be in medical field, his rebuttal on origin of ovary was brutal. Kudos.
So drLateef could neither defend the sperm nor ovary origin claim in the Qur'an.
Maybe we should call other Muslims to help him....

SIRTee15:



Leave TenQ alone...he's not in the medical field.
Discuss embryology with someone who knows what he's talking about.

Disprove the below....

The embryogenesis of the testis arise from the Germinal ridge which is from the mesothelial layer of the peritoneum. The other continuous structure is the mesonephros and not the notochord.
At first, the mesonephros and gonadal ridge are continuous, but as the embryo grows the gonadal ridge gradually becomes pinched off from the mesonephros but carries some cells from the latter.
So in simple terms, the testes is from the abdominal sac and the kidney tissues. It has nothing to do with the back bone.
The development of the spine from the notochord and neural tissue is completely different and not in anyway related to gonadal development.


Integrity of the Qur'an and Muhammad is at stake here.

You need to attend medical school or grab a book of embryology by keith Moore. This professor, the author also confirmed everything I am telling you.
The notochord is the future spinal cord, a ridge develops at the level of future T12/L1 of notochord and it is called urogenital ridge. The ridge divides into genital and mesonephric components. The former forms testis or ovary in both sides of the notochord. The latter forms the kidneys. Mesoderm from the abdominal wall migrate into the ridges before dividing into each parts. The mesoderm develops into future sperm cells and ovules in females. The endoderm of the abdominal wall forms the glands in the testis. That is the detail I have given you. You missed many of these details because you did not do embryology as a course and you are not a doctor.

drlateef:


Is any of those commentators are doctor? Are they not confused because they are not doctors? Even till today, its only doctors who understand those verses and what Allah refers to. But you choose to follow the ignorant ones as it suits your purpose.

The Qur'an mentioned the taraib: it is clearly NOT even within the L1- L5.

I'm sure your Arabic is not better than that of at-Tabari or Imam al-Qurtubi or al-Haafiz Ibn Katheer !
Case closed!




Remember, it takes only ONE goof to conclude that God never dictated the Qur'an
1. If the Qur'an is from God, why does it say the sun set in some murky waters?

SIRTee15:
Even though TenQ may not be in medical field, his rebuttal on origin of ovary was brutal. Kudos.
So drLateef could neither defend the sperm nor ovary origin claim in the Qur'an.
Maybe we should call other Muslims to help him....

The taraib translated as rib creates a problem for the L1 thesis he's proposing. The taraib is the bone at the neckline/necklace region of a woman. He knows this as it is pure Arabic which he has no defence against.

TenQ:


5. The Punishment of Sin is INFINITELY Large
Because the weight of sin is INFINITELY Large, there is NOTHING we can do as humans to right the error of Sin Against God. What is done is done and it cannot be undone.

Exactly where did you get a his information from?
This is what you get when you don't read the bible by your self but resort to only what the pastor's says..

If you have you would have read 2nd chronicles 7:14 which says...
"If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and confess their sins, and forsake their evil ways. I will hear from heaven, I will forgive their sins and heal their land"...
Where did you get the jagons you posted...

You really have a lot to learn...

" A contrite heart you will not spun ...Psalm 51

drlateef:




You need to attend medical school or grab a book of embryology by keith Moore. This professor, the author also confirmed everything I am telling you.
The notochord is the future spinal cord, a ridge develops at the level of future T12/L1 of notochord and it is called urogenital ridge. The ridge divides into genital and mesonephric components. The former forms testis or ovary in both sides of the notochord. The latter forms the kidneys. Mesoderm from the abdominal wall migrate into the ridges before dividing into each parts. The mesoderm develops into future sperm cells and ovules in females. The endoderm of the abdominal wall forms the glands in the testis. That is the detail I have given you. You missed many of these details because you did not do embryology as a course and you are not a doctor.

You talking nonsense.....
The urogenital ridge arise from the intermediate mesoderm and not the notochord.
The notochord is from the primitive streak which is from the axial mesoderm.
The mesoderm themselves arise from the epiblast during gastrulation.
There is no link btw the notochord and the urogenital structures at all.
And for your info, Keith Moore has debunked the claim by Muslims that he agreed with the Quranic explanation of sperm origin.

Refresh your memory about early embryogenic development week 4
https://www.osmosis.org/learn/Mesoderm

And this what chatgpt has to say...

sonmvayina:


Exactly where did you get a his information from?
This is what you get when you don't read the bible by your self but resort to only what the pastor's says..

If you have you would have read 2nd chronicles 7:14 which says...
"If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and confess their sins, and forsake their evil ways. I will hear from heaven, I will forgive their sins and heal their land"...
Where did you get the jagons you posted...

You really have a lot to learn...

" A contrite heart you will not spun ...Psalm 51

According to Jesus, A person who calls another human being "you fool" is in danger of hell fire!

Mat 5:22:
"But I say to you, That whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whoever shall say, You fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."

Do you think this judgment proportionate to the offence or not?

TenQ:

According to Jesus, A person who calls another human being "you fool" is in danger of hell fire!

Mat 5:22:
"But I say to you, That whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whoever shall say, You fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."

Do you think this judgment proportionate to the offence or not?

Jesus is a nonentity...

Who cares whatever they said he said....

He is not God and can never ever be...

Follow your creator.....not a fictitious character created by man...
God says, confess and forsake.i will forgive and remember your sins no more,..you are saying another thing. Abi are you above God? Why must he wait for somebody to die before, forgiving. Does it make any remote sense to you....?


Wake up..

sonmvayina:


Jesus is a nonentity...

Who cares whatever they said he said....

He is not God and can never ever be...

Follow your creator.....not a fictitious character created by man...
God says, confess and forsake.i will forgive and remember your sins no more,..you are saying another thing. Abi are you above God? Why must he wait for somebody to die before, forgiving. Does it make any remote sense to you....?


Wake up..

If Jesus is not God, how come he forgives sin.

sonmvayina:


Jesus is a nonentity...

Who cares whatever they said he said....

He is not God and can never ever be...

Follow your creator.....not a fictitious character created by man...
God says, confess and forsake.i will forgive and remember your sins no more,..you are saying another thing. Abi are you above God? Why must he wait for somebody to die before, forgiving. Does it make any remote sense to you....?


Wake up..

We have nothing to discuss!
Keep your lane!

SIRTee15:


If Jesus is not God, how come he forgives sin.

Hahahaha....

If snow white is not beautiful how come she has two jealous step sisters?
Can you tell the problem with this statement ?

TenQ:

We have nothing to discuss!
Keep your lane!

No wahala

Just stop posting stuff you can't prove ..

And based on mythology.

sonmvayina:



Hahahaha....

If snow white is not beautiful how come she has two jealous step sisters?
Can you tell the problem with this statement ?

Who are u?
Do u believe the Bible or not.
I replied u because I thought u are a Unitarian Christian.

SIRTee15:


Who are u?
Do u believe the Bible or not.
I replied u because I thought u are a Unitarian Christian.

He is a black Nigerian Jew Israelite with a confused theology: a waste of time!

SIRTee15:


Who are u?
Do u believe the Bible or not.
I replied u because I thought u are a Unitarian Christian.

I am not a Christian...

I am a man, that obeys God's commandments.
Which was given to us so that we can increase our consciousness and live in peace...
I don't worship a Jewish man that was nailed to a cross. That would be idolatry..

TenQ:

He is a black Nigerian Jew Israelite with a confused theology: a waste of time!

Lol..you where quick to answer..

Because I don't join you to worship a man/god the Romans created in their image and likeness. .
The truth is bitter, the earlier you wake up the better for you.....