SIRTee15:


So ahmadiyah Muslims that claim Muhammed is not the last prophet are true Muslims?
Is that not a core tenet of Islamic faith- didn't Muhammed himself said he's the final prophet.

Who's Mirza Gulam Ahmad? so u think it's a minor islamic doctrinal difference for prophets to come after Muhammed.

Believe in Jesus as son of God is trinity. So Unitarian Christians are only in delusion. The Jews said Jesus commited blasphemy by saying he's the son of God and had him killed. that should tell u something about that phrase.

Read my post slowly. Don't be like a soldier who joined battle with his scabbard while leaving the sword behind.

The Ahmadis are in error. They will be punished for such error. How? That is left for Allah to decide not me.

Gulam Ahmad started the movement in his hometown Qaidan, present day Pakistan. Of cos it is a major doctrinal issue but show me one Ahmadi who does not believe in the Propherhood of Prophet Muhammad, who does not Fast, reckon Allah as The Creator and have a separate Book other than the Quran. Show me one. They are saying in ADDITION TO what the Prophet brought Gulam Ahmad brought some more, ask them to show you, they still point to the Quran.

So, like you claimed Unitarians are in delusions, I am saying Ahmadis are in error.

Capiche?

TenQ:

What has Jesus returning again as written in the Quran got to do with the Bible?

Since you were not quoting the reference, I am no more interested. QED!


Evidence from your Quran that Israel is the Fig tree by which Allah swears.

You said Jesus cursed the Fig tree but Allah swears by the tree Jesus cursed.

Does this make sense to you?


Why does Allah swear by the Fig Tree?

Allah swears by anything He Fills like. He does what He Wills.

Any other thing?

Of cos it makes sense. Go to that Chapter where Allah call the Fig Tree to witness and understand it. You have the Quran don't you?

And Jesus CURSED IT because it symbolizes Israel. Israel Rejected him remember? They still do till date, they call him names, same for his Mother, called him a Liar, said he was a mad fellow, a Magician. As such he Cursed them symbolically. And till date, it stood. No single Prophet from that Nation of Reprobates. And that Kingdom of God ( typifies by Prophethood) was taken away and given to the Arabs. That is why they wanted him dead and not your fancy wishy washy growing in the telling lies foisted upon you lots by Paul

Lukuluku69:


You can't find it ke? You must find it o! So, do some readings...

As for swearing, you call it swearing but if you look at the Quranic Language, it is I call to Witness...... The Stars, the Moon etc. And Allah is the Almighty he disdain not to do what he wishes nor use anything to pass a message across.

And the Fig Tree represents Israel too. It is not mundane thing. Read the Bible. That is the symbolic meaning of Jesus CURSING That Fig Tree when it couldn't hear FRUITS. Jesus CURSED Israel! After him, NO MORE FRUITS (Prophets ) till the end of Time and that Fruits will be given to ANOTHER NATION. But the Canal Greeks that redacted the Jesus story thought he was Hungry

Can u show me where in that bible story is reference made to another nation. Because I fail to see how a story about faith has become prophets in new nation.

SIRTee15:


Can u show me where in that bible story is reference made to another nation. Because I fail to see how a story about faith has become prophets in new nation.

It is the whole picture you look at and not the disjointed narratives of the Gospel. To piece them together, you need the Apocrypha works too. The Redactors of the Synopsis and that of John left out what doesn't suit their fancies out and add some more .....

The Point to take even from the Gospel as it is, is the fact that Jesus caused a Fig Tree and somewhere said the Kingdom of God shall be taken from you( referring to the Jews) and giving to another Nation. That is the point you should worry about.

Lukuluku69:


Allah swears by anything He Fills like. He does what He Wills.

Any other thing?

Of cos it makes sense. Go to that Chapter where Allah call the Fig Tree to witness and understand it. You have the Quran don't you?

And Jesus CURSED IT because it symbolizes Israel. Israel Rejected him remember? They still do till date, they call him names, same for his Mother, called him a Liar, said he was a mad fellow, a Magician. As such he Cursed them symbolically. And till date, it stood. No single Prophet from that Nation of Reprobates. And that Kingdom of God ( typifies by Prophethood) was taken away and given to the Arabs. That is why they wanted him dead and not your fancy wishy washy growing in the telling lies foisted upon you lots by Paul

So a Muslim can actually say 'Allah can do whatever he wills'.
But when Christians say God can choose to enter his creation and become a man as evidenced in both old and new testament, Muslims starts shouting bible is corrupt, that it's impossible for God to be a man.
If this is not hypocrisy and cherry picking...I don't know what to call it.

I really dont know how tasfir work in the Quran but exegesis from the bible has to be relevant to the textual content without deviating from the historical context.
Otherwise, anybody can pick a bible verse and twist it to suit his selfish narrative.
What u ve done with the story of the fig tree is to create a whole new different story that's not relevant in anyway to the text. This is nothing but forgery.

SIRTee15:


So a Muslim can actually say 'Allah can do whatever he wills'.
But when Christians say God can choose to enter his creation and become a man as evidenced in both old and new testament, Muslims starts shouting bible is corrupt, that it's impossible for God to be a man.
If this is not hypocrisy and cherry picking...I don't know what to call it.

I really dont know how tasfir work in the Quran but exegesis from the bible has to be relevant to the textual content without deviating from the historical context.
Otherwise, anybody can pick a bible verse and twist it to suit his selfish narrative.
What u ve done with the story of the fig tree is to create a whole new different story that's not relevant in anyway to the text. This is nothing but forgery.

Of cos Allah does what He wills. And according to the Last Testament the Quran, morphing into a man is not one of them. He wills that man live a Righteous Life, so he sends Messengers upon Messengers for Man to redirect from his erring ways.

God doesn't have to be a Man to correct Man's way if that is true, then He will need to become an Angel to correct Angels ways, become a Jinn or if you like a Spirit, like the ones you people bind in your Churches to mend them. He will need to become a Monkey to mend Monkeys and so on. It is not hypocrisy as you alleged. It is right thinking which people who says God became a man to redeem man lacks.

Jesus said " Hear O Israel the Lord our God is One" did he include himself in the counting ? What of the Holy Spirit? Was it included? Yet you lots says God is Three! Was Jesus wrong or Paul the proponent right?

The story of the Fig Tree was alluded to to score a point about Curses and Oaths. You could say it is not necessary but to say it is a Forgery shows you lack the right words to use in getting your point across and that it is typical of most Evangelists. Dem too dey over cook everything. Exaggeration ti poju

Lukuluku69:


Read my post slowly. Don't be like a soldier who joined battle with his scabbard while leaving the sword behind.

The Ahmadis are in error. They will be punished for such error. How? That is left for Allah to decide not me.

Gulam Ahmad started the movement in his hometown Qaidan, present day Pakistan. Of cos it is a major doctrinal issue but show me one Ahmadi who does not believe in the Propherhood of Prophet Muhammad, who does not Fast, reckon Allah as The Creator and have a separate Book other than the Quran. Show me one. They are saying in ADDITION TO what the Prophet brought Gulam Ahmad brought some more, ask them to show you, they still point to the Quran.

So, like you claimed Unitarians are in delusions, I am saying Ahmadis are in error.

Capiche?

I think the way u going, u will eventually form your Islamic sect.
Because your fellow Sunni Muslims disagree with u that ahmadiyah are Muslims.
Watch the video below, it's a debate btw an ahmadiyah and sunni Muslim with occasional interjection from a Christian.
U can skip to 3.20 time duration.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrKlQajX1uQ

Now the funny thing is these 2 Muslims couldn't agree to what happened to Jesus on the cross. None of them could say with certainty what happened to Jesus on that day.
This is very much in contradiction to the reference verse in the Qur'an.

and for boasting, “We killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of Allah.” But they neither killed nor crucified him—it was only made to appear so.1 Even those who argue for this ˹crucifixion˺ are in doubt. They have no knowledge whatsoever—only making assumptions. They certainly did not kill him.

Now the Qur'an said the Jews and the Christians will be confused about what happened to Jesus on the cross, that we will be in pursuit of mere conjecture and making assumptions. But the Muslims will definitely be certain of what happened.

Ironically, it's the Muslims who are confused about the crucifixion of Jesus, they are the ones making assumptions which simply means they don't know.

We Christians are certain of jesus crucifixion, the Jews are definitely not bothered. It's the Muslims that can't come up with a reasonable answer. Ask 3 Muslims to clarify the circumstances surrounding the crucifixion of Jesus, u will get 5 different answers, that shows the degree of confusion


This proves one thing, the Qur'anic verse 4.157 is wrong and the Quran didn't clarify if Jesus went to heaven or if he's coming back. That's why lukuluku69 has been avoiding the question from TenQ and advocatejare.

Now lukuluku69, what I did here is proper exegesis, as u can see, I never left the verse to create another story throughout my explanation unlike the 'fabu' u dashing us about the fig tree story.

Finally, lukuluku69 redeem the image of Islam. Those 2 guys did a bad job and they poorly represented Islam. The sunni guy told the ahmadiyah that he has left the faith because he said Jesus is dead and not coming back.
Prove to us that u definitely know what happened to Jesus on that day of his crucifixion using the Qur'an.

SIRTee15:


I think the way u going, u will eventually form your Islamic sect.
Because your fellow Sunni Muslims disagree with u that ahmadiyah are Muslims.
Watch the video below, it's a debate btw an ahmadiyah and sunni Muslim with occasional interjection from a Christian.
U can skip to 3.20 time duration.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrKlQajX1uQ

Now the funny thing is these 2 Muslims couldn't agree to what happened to Jesus on the cross. None of them could say with certainty what happened to Jesus on that day.
This is very much in contradiction to the reference verse in the Qur'an.

and for boasting, “We killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of Allah.” But they neither killed nor crucified him—it was only made to appear so.1 Even those who argue for this ˹crucifixion˺ are in doubt. They have no knowledge whatsoever—only making assumptions. They certainly did not kill him.

Now the Qur'an said the Jews and the Christians will be confused about what happened to Jesus, that we will be in pursuit of conjecture and making assumptions. But the Muslims will definitely be certain of what happened.

Ironically, it's the Muslims who are confused about the crucifixion of Jesus, they are the ones making assumptions which simply means they don't know.

We Christians are certain of jesus crucifixion, the Jews are definitely not bothered. It's the Muslims that can't come up with a reasonable answer.

This proves one thing, Qur'an didn't clarify if Jesus went to heaven or if he's coming back. That's why lukuluku69 have been avoiding the question.

Now lukuluku69, what I did here is proper exegesis, as u can see I never left the verse to create another story throughout my explanation unlike the 'fabu' u dashing us about the fig tree story.

Finally, lukuluku69 redeem the image of Islam. Those 2 guys did a bad job. The sunni guy told the ahmadiyah that he has left the faith because he said Jesus is dead and not coming back.

Lol

I don't care to wash any video. Whatever anyone says, they are not The Prophet. Ahmadis believe in the Prophet hood of Prophet Muhammad, yes they erred with Gulam Ahmad who claimed to be a prophet too. The Prophet never said they are not Muslims, they are erring Muslims just like we have erring Christians Jesus will deny.

Do you want me to show you from the Bible that the events at Golgotha that fateful day was full of Conjectures? And that the people involved do have doubts?

Do you?

Lukuluku69:


Lol

I don't care to wash any video. Whatever anyone says, they are not The Prophet. Ahmadis believe in the Prophet hood of Prophet Muhammad, yes they erred with Gulam Ahmad who claimed to be a prophet too. The Prophet never said they are not Muslims, they are erring Muslims just like we have erring Christians Jesus will deny.

Do you want me to show you from the Bible that the events at Golgotha that fateful day was full of Conjectures? And that the people involved do have doubts?

Do you?

and for boasting, “We killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of Allah.” But they neither killed nor crucified him—it was only made to appear so. Even those who argue for this ˹crucifixion˺ are in doubt. They have no knowledge whatsoever—only making assumptions. They certainly did not kill him.

Ask 3 different muslims the circumstances surrounding the crucifixion of Jesus, u will get 7 different answers. That shows the level of confusion. Odikwa serious.

But muslims are not supposed to be confused about the crucifixion of Jesus according to the Qur'an.

Lukuluku69, leave the crucifixion story in the bible alone b4 u start another imaginative fabu in your head.
Focus on the Quranic verse, it says Christians and jews will be confused about the crucifixion story. Is that true? Have u met any group of Christians who argued the crucifixion story like u guys do.

This verse proves only one thing. The Qur'an is a fabricated rendition of your Muhammed. He heard nothing from God.
Defend your Qur'an. Why are Muslims confused about the crucifixion of Jesus.
Prove us wrong, tell us exactly what happened that day and confirm if he's coming back using the Qur'an.

@Lukuluku69. Your opinion about ahmadiyah is just your own opinion. U are simply living in denial or desperately trying to win point.

Most sunni Muslims and Islamic scholars reject ahmadiyah as true muslims. That's why they demolish their mosques and spread rumors about their leader.

Ask your fellow Muslims even here on nairaland if someone who believes in the death of jesus and Muhammad not the last and final prophet is a Muslim.
That's heretic or shirk in Islam. With those 2 believes u already left islam. I repeat, u are in denial.

Don't even get me started on the Qur'anists, those are even ridiculous.

Lukuluku69:


Of cos Allah does what He wills. And according to the Last Testament the Quran, morphing into a man is not one of them. He wills that man live a Righteous Life, so he sends Messengers upon Messengers for Man to redirect from his erring ways.

God doesn't have to be a Man to correct Man's way if that is true, then He will need to become an Angel to correct Angels ways, become a Jinn or if you like a Spirit, like the ones you people bind in your Churches to mend them. He will need to become a Monkey to mend Monkeys and so on. It is not hypocrisy as you alleged. It is right thinking which people who says God became a man to redeem man lacks.

Jesus said " Hear O Israel the Lord our God is One" did he include himself in the counting ? What of the Holy Spirit? Was it included? Yet you lots says God is Three! Was Jesus wrong or Paul the proponent right?

The story of the Fig Tree was alluded to to score a point about Curses and Oaths. You could say it is not necessary but to say it is a Forgery shows you lack the right words to use in getting your point across and that it is typical of most Evangelists. Dem too dey over cook everything. Exaggeration ti poju

Forgery...
the act of falsely making, altering, or imitate with intent to defraud or deceive.

Creating a whole new story to alter the meaning of a textual text is forgery. Journalist go to jail for this. That's what u did with the fig tree story- u twisted a text about faith into that of a nation.

The point here is u agreed with Christians that God can do whatever he wills. Allah isn't God, so they dont have the same attribute.

Your Allah is a physical being that occupies space. He has a face, a foot, 2 right hands and a leg.
Yahweh the Almighty God is a spirit, he's invisible and omnipresent.

God can choose to enter his creation and become a man for whatever reason that befits his purpose, just like your Allah can choose to swear by fig tree which sounds ridiculous to us Christians.
To think the only time God became man was to redeem mankind shows u not well versed with bible stories.
Your other points makes no sense. Seriously God becoming monkey to do what?
It's obvious the purpose of man creation in the Qur'an is another confused theory that will fall flat when tested.
In the bible, man is created in the image of God. That means we are a spirit just like Almighty God making us gods. Man is a special being not just some other creation.

SIRTee15:


Forgery...
the act of falsely making, altering, or imitate with intent to defraud or deceive.

Creating a whole new story to alter the meaning of a textual text is forgery. Journalist go to jail for this. That's what u did with the fig tree story- u twisted a text about faith into that of a nation.

The point here is u agreed with Christians that God can do whatever he wills. Allah isn't God, so they dont have the same attribute.

Your Allah is a physical being that occupies space. He has a face, a foot, 2 right hands and a leg.
Yahweh the Almighty God is a spirit, he's invisible and omnipresent.

God can choose to enter his creation and become a man for whatever reason that befits his purpose, just like your Allah can choose to swear by fig tree which sounds ridiculous to us Christians.
To think the only time God became man was to redeem mankind shows u not well versed with bible stories.
Your other points makes no sense. Seriously God becoming monkey to do what?
It's obvious the purpose of man creation in the Qur'an is another confused theory that will fall flat when tested.
In the bible, man is created in the image of God. That means we are a spirit just like Almighty God making us gods. Man is a special being not just some other creation.

Okay.

So, show us when God became An Angel to redeem the Angels too nah Sebi the Angels too rebelled?

Abeg enjoy your Superstition while I enjoy mine too, when we all met God, He will judge between us all.

tonytony208:


Just like your cursed deceptive Islamic scholars, you are avoiding the question.

Our Scholars are not cursed nor deceptive! The deceptive ones are the Clerics who prophesy lies and ascribe them to holy spirit! Peter Obi will win the elections!

Is Jesus coming back or not?

This has been answered previously! Jesus son of Maryam will come back again! He will defeat the antichrist (Dajjal), destroy the pigs and deny Christianity while ruling with Islam! He will get married and live till he finally dies and is buried as a Muslim!

If so, why is it that it is not Mohamed that is coming back?

Muhammad has died! Jesus didn't die! He will come back to complete his life and then die!

Is Mohamed in the grave?

Muhammad is in the grave alive in the life of the afterlife!

Is Jesus in heaven?

Yes, Jesus is in heaven body and soul as he never died! Allah willed it as such and Jesus will descend as one of the signs of the end of time to complete his destiny and die!

Why are you following a dead person and rejecting a living person?

Because my salvation is not dependent on miracles!

Jesus was in the womb for months so he can't be God!
Jesus was given birth to just like most other babies through the vaginal canal!
Jesus was protected by his parents even while the evil king wanted to hurt him! Humans dey protect God?
Jesus was called insane by his family in the Bible! Did they call God insane?
Jesus said in John 5:30 that he can of his ownself do nothing! So everything he does came from God Almighty!

We follow the God of Jesus, Allah, the Lord and Cherisher of the universe!
‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’” John 20:17
Jesus get God?

Lukuluku69:


Lol

I don't care to wash any video. Whatever anyone says, they are not The Prophet. Ahmadis believe in the Prophet hood of Prophet Muhammad, yes they erred with Gulam Ahmad who claimed to be a prophet too.

Ahmadiyya believe the opposite of what muhammad said that he’s the seal of the prophet and the last prophet and that revelation stopped with with Muhammad:

1. Ahmadiyya called muhammad a liar by saying that Ahmad Ghulam was the last prophet and not Muhammad

2. Ahmadiyya called Muhammad a liar by saying that Ahmad Ghulam also received revelation from Jibreel

Yet you came to do Taqiyya here by saying that Ahmaddiya are also Muslims.

Can an Ahmadiyya imam lead prayers in a Sunni mosques with Sunni Muslims praying behind him?

The Prophet never said they are not Muslims, they are erring Muslims just like we have erring Christians Jesus will deny.

See reasoning, was Ahmadiyya sect available during the time of Muhammad for him to have deny it? What year was Ahmad Ghulam born?

Be applying reasoning na Luku!

advocatejare:

Ahmadiyya believe the opposite of what muhammad said that he’s the seal of the prophet and the last prophet and that revelation stopped with with Muhammad:

1. Ahmadiyya called muhammad a liar by saying that Ahmad Ghulam was the last prophet and not Muhammad

2. Ahmadiyya called Muhammad a liar by saying that Ahmad Ghulam also received revelation from Jibreel

Yet you came to do Taqiyya here by saying that Ahmaddiya are also Muslims.

Can an Ahmadiyya imam lead prayers in a Sunni mosques with Sunni Muslims praying behind him?



See reasoning, was Ahmadiyya sect available during the time of Muhammad for him to have deny it? What year was Ahmad Ghulam born?

Be applying reasoning na Luku!

Gulam Ahmad never called the Prophet a Liar as you pointed out. If he did, please show me from his writings ( if there is any)

You own your words, and you own your actions insinuations from that is purely what your heart dictates to your head. You guys go overboard with your words. The scenario you painted is akin to me saying John the Baptist called Jesus a Liar too because I could recall reading from the Bible that The Baptist Bathed Jesus in the Jordan, while proclaiming him to be God's son and also witnessed a Dove descending on the Nazarene yet we read again from the Bible that while the Baptist was in Prison towards the tail end of his life, he sent his goons to go ask Jesus if ANOTHER is to come!

Can I insinuate from that that the Baptist called Jesus a Liar or that the Dove like Spirit that over on Jesus head misled him?

Gulam Ahmad words and actions are his alone, and your insinuations is the Christians way at grappling at anything and everything just to abound God's Glory.

And yes, the Ahmadis are a erring lots but believe me, I have prayed over a hundred times behind them. Whatever you make of that is your business. We pray the same Zhur Prayers together. It was same Four Rakats and one Salam. Ditto for Asr Prayers and Maghreeb prayers. They recite the Fatiha same way it has been done for over a hundred years and counting...

Of cos there were no schism while the Prophet was here, but he forewarned us of their emergence, just like Jesus warned his listeners about Wolves in sheep skin

AntiChristian:


Our Scholars are not cursed nor deceptive! The deceptive ones are the Clerics who prophesy lies and ascribe them to holy spirit! Peter Obi will win the elections!

This has been answered previously! Jesus son of Maryam will come back again! He will defeat the antichrist (Dajjal), destroy the pigs and deny Christianity while ruling with Islam! He will get married and live till he finally dies and is buried as a Muslim!


Muhammad has died! Jesus didn't die! He will come back to complete his life and then die!

Muhammad is in the grave alive in the life of the afterlife!

Yes, Jesus is in heaven body and soul as he never died! Allah willed it as such and Jesus will descend as one of the signs of the end of time to complete his destiny and die!

Because my salvation is not dependent on miracles!

Jesus was in the womb for months so he can't be God!
Jesus was given birth to just like most other babies through the vaginal canal!
Jesus was protected by his parents even while the evil king wanted to hurt him! Humans dey protect God?
Jesus was called insane by his family in the Bible! Did they call God insane?
Jesus said in John 5:30 that he can of his ownself do nothing! So everything he does came from God Almighty!

We follow the God of Jesus, Allah, the Lord and Cherisher of the universe!
‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’” John 20:17
Jesus get God?

U and I know Jesus is not coming back anything to live as a human. Una go wait tire, he won't return.
The ahmadiyah founder already claimed he was the returned Messiah. So which Messiah are u waiting for again?.
It makes no logical sense for someone who's dead to be greater than someone alive in heaven with God.
Your prophet is meant to be the greatest of all mankind yet in same Qur'an it clearly shows Jesus possess greater attributes than Muhammed. U guys can't just grasp the uniqueness of Jesus in your own Koran that Muhammed lacks.

Jesus conception was divine. He was born of a virgin. He talked as a baby.
Jesus created living things out of nothing just like your Allah, that means he's a creator. He was called the word of God- one of 99 attributes of Allah.
Jesus was sinless throughout his lifetime, even Muhammed couldn't beat that. And finally he didn't taste death.

The question u Muslims should be asking is why should Allah go through all those trouble for just one prophet.
What's so special about prophet Jesus that God endowed his with such amazing qualities including being a creator, such qualities not seen in Muhammed.
The answer is in the bible.

Finally, let me ask u a question about Jesus being God.
When the wise men came to worship Jesus. Were they worshipping that little baby in the cradle or the the spirit in the baby?

SIRTee15:


U and I know Jesus is not coming back anything to live as a human. Una go wait tire, he won't return.
The ahmadiyah founder already claimed he was the returned Messiah. So which Messiah are u waiting for again?.
It makes no logical sense for someone who's dead to be greater than someone alive in heaven with God.
Your prophet is meant to be the greatest of all mankind yet in same Qur'an it clearly shows Jesus possess greater attributes than Muhammed. U guys can't just grasp the uniqueness of Jesus in your own Koran that Muhammed lacks.

Jesus conception was divine. He was born of a virgin. He talked as a baby.
Jesus created living things out of nothing just like your Allah, that means he's a creator. He was called the word of God- one of 99 attributes of Allah.
Jesus was sinless throughout his lifetime, even Muhammed couldn't beat that. And finally he didn't taste death.

The question u Muslims should be asking is why should Allah go through all those trouble for just one prophet.
What's so special about prophet Jesus that God endowed his with such amazing qualities including being a creator, such qualities not seen in Muhammed.
The answer is in the bible.

Finally, let me ask u a question about Jesus being God.
When the wise men came to worship Jesus. Were they worshipping that little baby in the cradle or the the spirit in the baby?

Lol

The Wisemen story was nothing but a fable. Concocted only in whoever wrote the Gospel of Mathew brains. It never happened. And to let you know it is never happened, I can give you one simple logical poser you can do mentally.

The Distance between Persia and Judea, how long do you reckon it will be covered on a Camel? Minimum 3 months. It was covered in at least 2-3 days! Lol 😂😂😂😂😆😆

To properly understand why the story of the Wisemen was coined, you need to research the Zoroastrian Religion. They were looking for a Reformer who would come from another country to reform the corrupt Zoroastrian Religion.

Get an Encyclopedia and read.

The Zoroastrians found that Reformer in Prophet Muhammad and Islam. Today, the Persian are Muslims. Go and verify.

Lukuluku69:


Okay.

So, show us when God became An Angel to redeem the Angels too nah Sebi the Angels too rebelled?

Abeg enjoy your Superstition while I enjoy mine too, when we all met God, He will judge between us all.

What are angels, can they be redeemed? Maybe in the Qur'an I don't know. Why is redemption a possibility for man and not angels?
I thought u an expert in bible exegesis, I'm surprised u keep asking this basic questions.

I repeat, if u think the only time God entered creation to become man was to redeem mankind, then u need to go and read more on the old testament stories.

I agree with u that believe in Allah or Muhammed is superstition. Because u can't prove they exist in anyway or form.
But I and thousands of Christians can prove to u that Jesus is real. He exist and his word is true.
He lives in is us as evidenced by the powerful testimony and miraculous power of his active force in our lives.

By virtue of my profession in the medical field, I've witnessed real evidence of medical turnaround that can only be explained by a divine force. Not like someone told me, but what I witnessed with my own very eyes.

That's why I laff at Muslims who claim religion should be based on objective reasoning and if done that way Islam will triumph.
Every religion makes no sense when tested by logical reasoning, they fall flat. Islam will even be first to scatter, a religion that has no history of its own.

Finally I leave u with this verse.....

For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
heb 4.12
That word of God remain an active force till today and until eternity. We not joking here.

Lukuluku69:

[/b]
Lol

The Wisemen story was nothing but a fable. Concocted only in whoever wrote the Gospel of Mathew brains. It never happened. And to let you know it is never happened, I can give you one simple logical poser you can do mentally.

The Distance between Persia and Judea, how long do you reckon it will be covered on a Camel? Minimum 3 months. It was covered in at least 2-3 days! Lol 😂😂😂😂😆😆

To properly understand why the story of the Wisemen was coined, you need to research the Zoroastrian Religion. They were looking for a Reformer who would come from another country to reform the corrupt Zoroastrian Religion.

Get an Encyclopedia and read.

The Zoroastrians found that Reformer in Prophet Muhammad and Islam. Today, the Persian are Muslims. Go and verify.

Show me from the bible the wise men travelled from Persia to Bethlehem. Where did u even get they traveled for 3 days.
U ve started confabulating again. If I accuse u of forgery now, u will say I'm exaggerating.

I take God beg u, don't even start with fables because Qur'an will be buried and some may even be tempted to leave Islam.
Pls let's just stick to present debate. Leave fables alone because Qur'an has lots of them.

Persians became Muslims with the help of the sword. Good thing is their eyes are opening and present generation are abandoning the cult.
Recent polls showed only 37 percent of young Iranians identify as Muslims.

I repeat my question, when the wise men came to worship Jesus. Did they bow down to the little baby enjoying his quiet life in the cradle or the divinity in him.

SIRTee15:


What are angels, can they be redeemed? Maybe in the Qur'an I don't know. Why is redemption a possibility for man and not angels?
I thought u an expert in bible exegesis, I'm surprised u keep asking this basic questions.

I repeat, if u think the only time God entered creation to become man was to redeem mankind, then u need to go and read more on the old testament stories.

I agree with u that believe in Allah or Muhammed is superstition. Because u can't prove they exist in anyway or form.
But I and thousands of Christians can prove to u that Jesus is real. He exist and his word is true.
He lives in is us as evidenced by the powerful testimony and miraculous power of his active force in our lives.

By virtue of my profession in the medical field, I've witnessed real evidence of medical turnaround that can only be explained by a divine force. Not like someone told me, but what I witnessed with my own very eyes.

That's why I laff at Muslims who claim religion should be based on objective reasoning and if done that way Islam will triumph.
Every religion makes no sense when tested by logical reasoning, they fall flat. Islam will even be first to scatter, a religion that has no history of its own.

Finally I leave u with this verse.....

For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
heb 4.12
That word of God remain an active force till today and until eternity. We not joking here.

Dokita, why not face the Medical field you have an expertise and leave Religion alone? If God became man because of Man's fall, can't God morphed into an Angel too to redeem the Fallen Angels?

Lol So, Jehovah has been morphing all these while in the Old Testament? Really really? So, why then, is the Jesus man-god thing unique? See? You will keep stumbling ascribing what is not God's to God!

Your experiences are your experiences and mine are mine. So is everybody's. Go read other Non-Abrahamic Faith Experiences, they will tell you the same thing. Stop the idea of gazing at the beauty of the Horizon from a Keyhole of your own Faith, come out in the open. Look at everyone's experiences too.

Neither am I joking here Sir! Your ways are in Manifest Error. You ascribe divinity to a man who never claimed one. Jesus expressly told his listeners and by extension you that God is ONE, you said THREE. If you need to laff, please laff at your own folly. Don't be that one person that sees the speck in another's eye while a Beam is about to chop off his own head.

And if you must quote the Bible next time, try and quote from what is attributable to Jesus and not the writings of that Liar Paul.

Adios!

SIRTee15:


Show me from the bible the wise men travelled from Persia to Bethlehem. Where did u even get they traveled for 3 days.
U ve started confabulating again. If I accuse u of forgery now, u will say I'm exaggerating.

I take God beg u, don't even start with fables because Qur'an will be buried and some may even be tempted to leave Islam.
Pls let's just stick to present debate. Leave fables alone because Qur'an has lots of them.

Persians became Muslims with the help of the sword. Good thing is their eyes are opening and present generation are abandoning the cult.
Recent polls showed only 37 percent of young Iranians identify as Muslims.

I repeat my question, when the wise men came to worship Jesus. Did they bow down to the little baby enjoying his quiet life in the cradle or the divinity in him.

Dokita, use your sense! I know you are cerebral to have passed thru Medical School.

How many days was Babe Jesus at the Manger? We know on the 8 days he was taken to the Temple for naming. Or they went directly from the Manger to the Temple?

Yes the Persians were converted thru the Swords. Exactly as prophesized in the Zoroastrians Scripture and in the Vision of Daniel.

Lol, still grappling at straw? When has the Demography of only the Young people form the whole for the Country? SEBI you passed Medical School? Critical thinking is a requisite nah .

Read my previous post, the story of the Wisemen was a concoction. It never happened. It is like the story of Batman in Gotham. Someone's creative imagination.

Lukuluku69:


Gulam Ahmad never called the Prophet a Liar as you pointed out. If he did, please show me from his writings ( if there is any)

I expect you to be smarter than this. Muhammad said he was the last and the seal of the prophet, Ghulam said he was the prophet after Muhammad. What does that make of Muhammad proclamation?

Ghulam also said Jibreel made revelations to him also . In Islam, did any other person receive revelation from Jibreel after Muhammad?

Muhammad said Jesus the Messiah was coming back, but Ghulam said that he is the Messiah that Muhammad talked about! Isn’t that negating what Muhammad said.

The scenario you painted is akin to me saying John the Baptist called Jesus a Liar too because I could recall reading from the Bible that The Baptist Bathed Jesus in the Jordan, while proclaiming him to be God's son and also witnessed a Dove descending on the Nazarene yet we read again from the Bible that while the Baptist was in Prison towards the tail end of his life, he sent his goons to go ask Jesus if ANOTHER is to come!

Your analogy is not fitting.
John the Baptist never said that Jesus was not the Messiah.

John the Baptist felt that Jesus would come and rescue him in prison even though there was never any promise of that about John and Jesus in the scriptures. So when Jesus didn’t rescue him he sent a message to him asking if another messiah was coming. So John never called Jesus a liar like Ghulam called Muhammad a liar

And yes, the Ahmadis are a erring lots but believe me, I have prayed over a hundred times behind them.

Oh, that is nice. I hope AntiChristians and other Ahlu-sunnah can do the same

Of cos there were no schism while the Prophet was here, but he forewarned us of their emergence, just like Jesus warned his listeners about Wolves in sheep skin

What led to the schism? I thought Allah said that he had made Islam a perfect religion , how can a perfect religion evolve into schism?

AntiChristian:

This has been answered previously! Jesus son of Maryam will come back again! He will defeat the antichrist (Dajjal), destroy the pigs and deny Christianity while ruling with Islam! He will get married and live till he finally dies and is buried as a Muslim!

So Baba l’Agege was saying rubbish ni, he was not not following the words of Muhammad.

At least you are more honorable than Lukuluku69 your friend who couldn’t tell us what his stance is!

SIRTee15:


U and I know Jesus is not coming back anything to live as a human. Una go wait tire, he won't return.

I did tell you what i know and believe. Let's wait till we both die!

The ahmadiyah founder already claimed he was the returned Messiah. So which Messiah are u waiting for again?.

I am not an ahmadiyah. Ahmadiyah have their own Prophet after Muhammad. So their beliefs are entirely different!

It makes no logical sense for someone who's dead to be greater than someone alive in heaven with God.

So does that mean Enoch & Elijah that didn't die are superior to Jesus who died once?

Your prophet is meant to be the greatest of all mankind yet in same Qur'an it clearly shows Jesus possess greater attributes than Muhammed. U guys can't just grasp the uniqueness of Jesus in your own Koran that Muhammed lacks.

What attributes are you talking about apart from miracles? Na Miracles be salvation? False prophets can also do miracles. Does that make them Christians?

Jesus conception was divine. He was born of a virgin. He talked as a baby.
Jesus created living things out of nothing just like your Allah, that means he's a creator. He was called the word of God- one of 99 attributes of Allah.
Jesus was sinless throughout his lifetime, even Muhammed couldn't beat that. And finally he didn't taste death.

Yeah, Jesus had no earthly father but had a mother! Eve was created from Adam while Adam had no father or mother! These are some of the graces of Allah which abound on whom He wills among His creations!

Jesus created living things by the permission of Allah. This well stated in the Qur'an as well as the Bible. Jesus can do nothing by himself!
And it is false that Jesus being called the word of Allah means he's an attribute of Allah! This is a lie!
Abraham was called Friend of Allah, Moses- the one who converses with Allah!
Qur'an is the word of Allah just like the Torah, Zabur and Injeel!

Everything come in to existence by the word of Allah "Be" and it is.
The Qur'an mentions Jesus as being pure and righteous just as John the Baptist!
In Islam, Prophets are protected from major sins unlike in Christianity where David can commit Adultery and murder, Noah can drink alcohol and be naked, Lot can be raped by his two daughters after God saved them from sodomy!
Allah says Jesus was a slave of Allah in Qur'an 19:30!

Abraham too raise dead animals to live in the Qur'an!

The question u Muslims should be asking is why should Allah go through all those trouble for just one prophet.
What's so special about prophet Jesus that God endowed his with such amazing qualities including being a creator, such qualities not seen in Muhammed.
The answer is in the bible.

All your quality na miracles! Nothing more! And Allah is able to do all things!
And we don't compare Allah's Prophet as you do! All of them are God's slaves!

Finally, let me ask u a question about Jesus being God.
When the wise men came to worship Jesus. Were they worshipping that little baby in the cradle or the the spirit in the baby?

1. Did the wise men call him God?
2. How did they worship Jesus?

1. Was Abraham worshipping them?
Then Abraham rose and bowed down before the people of the land, the Hittites. Genesis 23:7

2. Were they worshipping him?
Then the maidservants and their children approached and bowed down. Leah and her children also approached and bowed down, and then Joseph and Rachel approached and bowed down. Genesis 33:6-7

3. This would have been worship if Jesus was in the picture?
“At this the servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Be patient with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’Matthew 18:26

Lastly, Jesus did worshipped God:
Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.” Matthew 26:39

The Bible writers did not use worship above but decided to used it below:

and asked, “Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him.” Matthew 2:2

The wise men were not even Christians! And "bowing down" to people could be as a sign of homage as seen above!

advocatejare:

So Baba l’Agege was saying rubbish ni, he was not not following the words of Muhammad.

At least you are more honorable than Lukuluku69 your friend who couldn’t tell us what his stance is!

Duh

advocatejare:

I expect you to be smarter than this. Muhammad said he was the last and the seal of the prophet, Ghulam said he was the prophet after Muhammad. What does that make of Muhammad proclamation?

Ghulam also said Jibreel made revelations to him also . In Islam, did any other person receive revelation from Jibreel after Muhammad?

Muhammad said Jesus the Messiah was coming back, but Ghulam said that he is the Messiah that Muhammad talked about! Isn’t that negating what Muhammad said.



Your analogy is not fitting.
John the Baptist never said that Jesus was not the Messiah.

John the Baptist felt that Jesus would come and rescue him in prison even though there was never any promise of that about John and Jesus in the scriptures. So when Jesus didn’t rescue him he sent a message to him asking if another messiah was coming. So John never called Jesus a liar like Ghulam called Muhammad a liar


Oh, that is nice. I hope AntiChristians and other Ahlu-sunnah can do the same



What led to the schism? I thought Allah said that he had made Islam a perfect religion , how can a perfect religion evolve into schism?

Whatever makes you sleep easy.

So, the Baptist asking " should we expect another one" translate to Jesus freeing him from prison? Issokay.

Keep the faith

Lukuluku69:


Whatever makes you sleep easy.

So, the Baptist asking " should we expect another one" translate to Jesus freeing him from prison? Issokay.

Keep the faith

Matthew 11:2-6
Now when John heard in prison about the deeds of the Christ, he sent word by his disciples and said to him, “Are you the one who is to come, or shall we look for another?” And Jesus answered them, “Go and tell John what you hear and see: the blind receive their sight and the lame walk, lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, and the dead are raised up, and the poor have good news preached to them. And blessed is the one who is not offended by me.”


May you be free from the best of the deceivers, Al-Makireena!

Lukuluku69:


Duh

Coward that couldn’t tell us what his stance is!

advocatejare:

So Baba l’Agege was saying rubbish ni, he was not not following the words of Muhammad.

At least you are more honorable than Lukuluku69 your friend who couldn’t tell us what his stance is!

Of course, no doubt about baba l'Agege! He's one of the most prominent Fitnah monger in Lagos for some years back!

Confucius is LUKULUKU
Atheism is ANTICHRISTIAN

THOSE WHO DON'T BELIEVE GOT F9 IN THEIR 10 SUBJECTS IN NECO.

AntiChristian:


1. Did the wise men call him God?
2. How did they worship Jesus?

1. Was Abraham worshipping them?
Then Abraham rose and bowed down before the people of the land, the Hittites. Genesis 23:7

2. Were they worshipping him?
Then the maidservants and their children approached and bowed down. Leah and her children also approached and bowed down, and then Joseph and Rachel approached and bowed down. Genesis 33:6-7

3. This would have been worship if Jesus was in the picture?
“At this the servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Be patient with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’Matthew 18:26

Lastly, Jesus did worshipped God:
Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.” Matthew 26:39

The Bible writers did not use worship above but decided to used it below:

and asked, “Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him.” Matthew 2:2

The wise men were not even Christians! And "bowing down" to people could be as a sign of homage as seen above!

He be like say u never chop this morning abi when does reverence greeting becomes worship.

When yoruba people or even guys up north bow before the obas or emir, are they worshiping the king.
When a Yoruba man prostate flat in front of an elderly person is that worship
Abeg dey use your brain when making points.

Show me all those verses u quoted where they worshipped the person.

The wise men claimed they came to worship the Messiah and when they saw him, they bowed to him.

Another meaningless statement is claiming the wise man were not Christians.
When was the new covenant established, when did Christianity start.
How can they be Christians when they came to worship he who will establish Christianity.

Monotheism wasn't restricted to Judaism in ancient times. The wise men were monotheists.

Now answer my question, don't avoid it.
Did th wise men worship baby Jesus or the divinity in Jesus.