fellis:
this isn't what I am saying at all, stop trivializing it.

It isn't the same thing at all. Most times, mysteries that have been revealed to us in religion to be the manifestation of God's work happen exactly the way we are told they are going to happen.
I am not sure how to explain it sadly. But somethings like predictions or dreams in which the things you see happen in real life exactly how they appeared in the dream or prayers that you make and then you get what you asked for exactly how you asked

That's not true. It isn't a paradox.
A mystery is not understandable by man but we know that God is responsible for them, that doesn't mean that we understand the mystery.

The problem with mysteries, religion and evidence; The origin of man consporacy;


Quran + Muhammad; Allah/God created man and created the earth.

Early muslim; We dont know the origin of man or the earth therefore, God did it. The Quran is right. Mystery solved.

21st century scientist; Man evolved from other animals. The big bang was the start of the universe. We dont know what could be beyond the big bang.

Modern muslim; God caused the big bang. God controlled evolution. We know what is beyond the big bang; Allah. Mystery solved.



Notice the inconsistency between the early and modern muslims.

lilcutie8916: Ok where do i start . If for example u see a statue that is like a hundred years old first thing that come to ur mind is some dude carved this right. When archeologists find a triangular shaped rock with some chipings on it they say man made it as a spear head. Ok look at the brains u use in debunking ur selves and u tell me that it evolved by chance and it wasn't designed.
Our solar system arranged in perfect harmony and that also happened by chance from one big explosion. If a sculpture cant happen by chance but had to be made by someone then why cant ur perfect anatomy be made by a supreme designer.

I literally did a facepalm after reading this. We try so hard to explain the principle of natural selection to you guys, yet you keep circling back to the same senseless arguments.

For the 1 millionth time, nobody believes that we evolved by chance. Evolution results from the non-random survival of randomly varying replicators. It is a very straight-forward concept and I can tell from your spelling and grammer that you are not rétarded so stop pretending like you don't understand.

lilcutie8916: Ok where do i start . If for example u see a statue that is like a hundred years old first thing that come to ur mind is some dude carved this right. When archeologists find a triangular shaped rock with some chipings on it they say man made it as a spear head. Ok look at the brains u use in debunking ur selves and u tell me that it evolved by chance and it wasn't designed.
Our solar system arranged in perfect harmony and that also happened by chance from one big explosion. If a sculpture cant happen by chance but had to be made by someone then why cant ur perfect anatomy be made by a supreme designer.

I promised to debunk you when you provide evidence of your god right?
Just noticed Evil_Brain took the first part, so I'll deal with the second as bolded above

You have a major Foundational bias here to start with, while making a silly straw-man argument

Well, when something seems harmonious doesn't mean it is indeed one.

First thing you'll do is buy yourself a decent telescope and find a great location away from too much city light, Look at our moon and see the hundreds of large scars on it. Good evidence of a violent past as asteroids and comets were the order of the day. Colliding and constituting a nuisance in our solar system. where did these asteroids orginate from? yes! exactly what you think: planets colliding. The planets u see today are only but a remnant of that violent past. Here on earth, we can see craters like the one below

Only gets you to think, our we really in perfect harmony?. The answer is two folds

1)No we arent! we just find ourselves in a world suitable for us and we tend to believe it is perfect. When you realise how much of the universe can kill u in an instant, you'll change your mind about harmony
2) We have 8 planets around our star. and well over 30% of stars are bounds to have atleast a planet in its orbit. With around 300billion stars in galaxies and over another 100billion galaxies in our OBSERVABLE universe, the possible number of planets reach unimaginable numbers well above 10²⁵. With this very large number, the probability for an improbable event to occur becomes almost 1. Basically, the "harmony" you see is an illusion

Everything caught up in the gravitational pull of our sun will be stuck there. Again, Neither of these orbits are in perfect "Harmony". come to our earth, we have 365 1/4 days around the sun for a reason. Some have elliptical orbits others have consistent orbits other have a random orbit, Same reason why Pluto was dumped out of the "league" of planets.

The Andromeda Galaxy is on a direct collision course with our innocent Milkyway Galaxy
Our sun has a limited life
An asteroid colliding with us can spell doom.
Only 21% of our atmosphere is good for our survival
Earthquakes happen at random as Plate tectonics plague our tiny planet
Yellowstone SuperVolcano can erupt any moment and cause massive devastation as the heart of our earth boils
Deserts are very hostile to life
70% of our earth is covered with water we cant use directly
Our magnetic field fluctuates when it likes

This list can go on and on. And yet you have the cheek to call this harmony? then move a step further to attribute that to your "daddy big boss"?

Your solution for evidence of god seems too childish. "I don't know how it happened so an Invincible bearded boss did it?"

I suggest you read about the big b@ng theory and what it really is about

lilcutie8916: Ok where do i start . If for example u see a statue that is like a hundred years old first thing that come to ur mind is some dude carved this right. When archeologists find a triangular shaped rock with some chipings on it they say man made it as a spear head. Ok look at the brains u use in debunking ur selves and u tell me that it evolved by chance and it wasn't designed.
Our solar system arranged in perfect harmony and that also happened by chance from one big explosion. If a sculpture cant happen by chance but had to be made by someone then why cant ur perfect anatomy be made by a supreme designer.

A stalagmite and stalagcite it a cavern were also made by a supreme designer? You claim our world is in perfect harmony yet volcanoes erupt killing millions and destroying properties worth more. Is that what you call perfect harmony. If you find it hard understanding the big bang theory how come you dont have no problems understanding and accepting volcanic eruptions and earth quake as simple natural phenomena. Must every argument of origin end with God did it? So many of us atheist/agnost had religious up bringing until we chose to put our minds to work and ask important questions. Listen there is no need to try to prove God from past or historical evidence, lets prove him/her/it with current evidence. If God truly exists or is the way/personalty in which you books describe him then he should perform acts only a God should be able to perform liking having a severed linmb grow back or an attrophied limb of a cripple develop strenght or better still make Cobhams regain his sight

Area_boy:

I promised to debunk you when you provide evidence of your god right?
Just noticed Evil_Brain took the first part, so I'll deal with the second as bolded above

You have a major Foundational bias here to start with, while making a silly straw-man argument

Well, when something seems harmonious doesn't mean it is indeed one.

First thing you'll do is buy yourself a decent telescope and find a great location away from too much city light, Look at our moon and see the hundreds of large scars on it. Good evidence of a violent past as asteroids and comets were the order of the day. Colliding and constituting a nuisance in our solar system. where did these asteroids orginate from? yes! exactly what you think: planets colliding. The planets u see today are only but a remnant of that violent past. Here on earth, we can see craters like the one below

Only gets you to think, our we really in perfect harmony?. The answer is two folds

1)No we arent! we just find ourselves in a world suitable for us and we tend to believe it is perfect. When you realise how much of the universe can kill u in an instant, you'll change your mind about harmony
2) We have 8 planets around our star. and well over 30% of stars are bounds to have atleast a planet in its orbit. With around 300billion stars in galaxies and over another 100billion galaxies in our OBSERVABLE universe, the possible number of planets reach unimaginable numbers well above 10²⁵. With this very large number, the probability for an improbable event to occur becomes almost 1. Basically, the "harmony" you see is an illusion

Everything caught up in the gravitational pull of our sun will be stuck there. Again, Neither of these orbits are in perfect "Harmony". come to our earth, we have 365 1/4 days around the sun for a reason. Some have elliptical orbits others have consistent orbits other have a random orbit, Same reason why Pluto was dumped out of the "league" of planets.

The Andromeda Galaxy is on a direct collision course with our innocent Milkyway Galaxy
Our sun has a limited life
An asteroid colliding with us can spell doom.
Only 21% of our atmosphere is good for our survival
Earthquakes happen at random as Plate tectonics plague our tiny planet
Yellowstone SuperVolcano can erupt any moment and cause massive devastation as the heart of our earth boils
Deserts are very hostile to life
70% of our earth is covered with water we cant use directly
Our magnetic field fluctuates when it likes

This list can go on and on. And yet you have the cheek to call this harmony? then move a step further to attribute that to your "daddy big boss"?

Your solution for evidence of god seems too childish. "I don't know how it happened so an Invincible bearded boss did it?"

I suggest you read about the big b@ng theory and what it really is about

Then ur big bang shouldnt be a theory if u re so sure about it and i am sure ur grand daddy or some micro organism which is ur ancestor must have witnessed it and narrated it to u and u.
And let me add that the time it takes for these pictures of stars and galaxies to reach ur eye takes thousans of years so if we re on a collision course it should have happened already .ur scientists make assumptions and since it is something u want to believe then it is the truth . Pls explain why there re missing links in ur evolution chain.

lilcutie8916:
Then ur big bang shouldnt be a theory if u re so sure about it and i am sure ur grand daddy or some micro organism which is ur ancestor must have witnessed it and narrated it to u and u.
And let me add that the time it takes for these pictures of stars and galaxies to reach ur eye takes thousans of years so if we re on a collision course it should have happened already .ur scientists make assumptions and since it is something u want to believe then it is the truth . Pls explain why there re missing links in ur evolution chain.

"missing links"

SMH.


Why these people never try to read on their own baffles me.

fellis:
Is there a scientific explanation why scientists not been able to get the exact same combination of atoms that brought about the first life on earth?

The explanation is that they are still working on it and have the found the most important particle 'The Higgs Boson'

lilcutie8916:
Then ur big bang shouldnt be a theory if u re so sure about it and i am sure ur grand daddy or some micro organism which is ur ancestor must have witnessed it and narrated it to u and u.
And let me add that the time it takes for these pictures of stars and galaxies to reach ur eye takes thousans of years so if we re on a collision course it should have happened already .ur scientists make assumptions and since it is something u want to believe then it is the truth . Pls explain why there re missing links in ur evolution chain.

From your theory of Intelligent design....How did god come about?

fellis:
So your problem is not that God doesn't reveal Himself, it is that He uses mysteries to do so?
Anyway for your info, God reveals Himself in different ways to different people. An atheist like yourself became a believer not from witnessing mysteries but from reading books and broadening his knowledge of the origin of the earth and human beings. Besides these 'mysteries' serve to let you know that a spiritual realm exists and that everything isn't all about the logical and physical.

God is the explanation for what we don't understand. Mysteries being mysteries don't make a statement other than that we humans are not omniscient.

MacDaddy01:


Your analogy does not apply to living things, the furthest we can go with the origin of living things is that they evolved from other living things. If you want to claim god, you are going in a circular argument because the question becomes; who made god? If u say that the origin of a statue is a human sculptor, who made the human? It is an infinite regress.



Our solar system is not perfect. Some planets too hot for lie, some too cold. Furthermore, there are other failed solar systems and our solar system will fail in the future. Even if there is a a god, he is a rubbish creator that makes a lot of galaxies many of which we know to be uninhabitable and some failed with exploding stars.

Fact 1: Our solar system is perfect, just perfect for preserving life on earth and that's a fact.

Fact 2: Living creatures didn't evolve from other living things. Natural selection fails from the start because it is a reification of Nature. Nature lacks cognition and cannot select for new organs anywhere, anyhow and that's a fact.

Fact 3: God exists and you have as evidence the rock-solid law of cause & effect which is the basis of scientific investigations. An indepent cause effects a dependent event.

lilcutie8916:
Then ur big bang shouldnt be a theory if u re so sure about it and i am sure ur grand daddy or some micro organism which is ur ancestor must have witnessed it and narrated it to u and u.
And let me add that the time it takes for these pictures of stars and galaxies to reach ur eye takes thousans of years so if we re on a collision course it should have happened already .ur scientists make assumptions and since it is something u want to believe then it is the truth . Pls explain why there re missing links in ur evolution chain.

There is an imbalance in the post here, you show signs of education and signs of ignorance side by side. Some call that willful ignorance, I call it trolling.
You ask a question about evolution, you accept evolution as a 'theory' then? But you don't accept the big ban.g? There is a lot of evidence to support the big ban.g, not just assumptions, and you've already accepted you know what type of 'theory' it is. Then on galaxies colliding you mention it takes thousands of years for light to reach here thus the collision should have occurred. I'm confused, is the galaxy traveling faster than light? Sometimes it takes billions of years actually. But say it takes light a billion years to reach us at the speed of light, yet this galaxy is moving towards us at a fraction of the speed of light, and it would take it 10 billion years to get here, need I point out how your math is flawed (and my math is sh.it).

As for evolution, are there gaps? I honestly don't know. One thing I don't do though is assign 'god' to things I don't understand, especially when there's absolutely no need to, no evidence to support it whatsoever and it actually complicates things. For instance, who made 'god'? When someone eventually figures out the gap (likely using the scientific method) will you gladly bandwagon with him/her then, rewrite your religious theory or cover your ears and scream LALALA?. And this has been happening ever since the earth was flat and on the back of a giant turtle, and gods lived in rocks and rivers. They moved to the skies, science moved there as well, supposedly chasing them away I guess. The gods now live in the era before the big bang I hear, when science gets there I wonder where they'll hide. Any ideas?

Uyi Iredia:

Fact 1: Our solar system is perfect, just perfect for preserving life on earth and that's a fact.

Fact 2: Living creatures didn't evolve from other living things. Natural selection fails from the start because it is a reification of Nature. Nature lacks cognition and cannot select for new organs anywhere, anyhow and that's a fact.

Fact 3: God exists and you have as evidence the rock-solid law of cause & effect which is the basis of scientific investigations. An indepent cause effects a dependent event.

And the first uncaused cause is what?

Kay 17:

God is the explanation for what we don't understand. Mysteries being mysteries don't make a statement other than that we humans are not omniscient.

Shows that God will for ever be hiding lol

mkmyers45:

And the first uncaused cause is what?

They usually fill in that blank with their daddy big boss... ywhw lol


@ lilcutie, I've been away and glad to see you have been already torn to pieces by that petty attempt to compile a reasonable reply.

The earth revolving around our sun is a theory
The force of gravity is a theory
momentum and impact is a theory

You really should understand the scientific meaning of a "theory" before your display your abject sense of ignorance.

And yes, light travels only so fast and the light we see from the said galaxy only gets here 2.5million years after it departs Andromeda. Do you really think that has not been factored in!?

I need to slap your secondary school teacher

Uyi Iredia:

Fact 1: Our solar system is perfect, just perfect for preserving life on earth and that's a fact.

Fact 2: Living creatures didn't evolve from other living things. Natural selection fails from the start because it is a reification of Nature. Nature lacks cognition and cannot select for new organs anywhere, anyhow and that's a fact.

Fact 3: God exists and you have as evidence the rock-solid law of cause & effect which is the basis of scientific investigations. An indepent cause effects a dependent event.

Fact 1; Try living on mars

Fact 2; Is this the science they teach in bible university? Evolution is a scientific theory. Go and read.

Fact 3; What caused god, mr cause n effect?

Uyi Iredia:

Fact 1: Our solar system is perfect, just perfect for preserving life on earth and that's a fact.

Fact 2: Living creatures didn't evolve from other living things. Natural selection fails from the start because it is a reification of Nature. Nature lacks cognition and cannot select for new organs anywhere, anyhow and that's a fact.

Fact 3: God exists and you have as evidence the rock-solid law of cause & effect which is the basis of scientific investigations. An indepent cause effects a dependent event.

Which in turn leaves us with a paradox, because causality as a physical principle is yet to be explained.

My bible made predictons of alexander,cirus, merdes and persia, roman empire, etc and it all came through in exact details pls do explain that.

lilcutie8916: My bible made predictons of alexander,cirus, merdes and persia, roman empire, etc and it all came through in exact details pls do explain that.

Predictions about Alexander the great? You must be kidding.

However, did the bible predict the internet or anything about our modern life? Abeg shut up and think

lilcutie8916: My bible made predictons of alexander,cirus, merdes and persia, roman empire, etc and it all came through in exact details pls do explain that.

ehn? where? when? how?

dekung:
ehn? where? when? how?

try reading the bible and maybe GOD will touch ur life

Go to bed, li'l cutie, good night!

lilcutie8916: try reading the bible and maybe GOD will touch ur life

why not point out where these predictions were made rather thn sking to go nd look for it? You re probably regurgitating what you pastor told you, unfortunatele you were not bold enough to sk him/her where the predictions are in your book

lilcutie8916: My bible made predictons of alexander,cirus, merdes and persia, roman empire, etc and it all came through in exact details pls do explain that.

This is a radical different claim from saying God exists, cos you are saying the authors have within their immediate knowledge, God. Through whom you know God via hearsay.

So we are to question the knowledge of those writers, the time in which it was written, possibly of error, etc.

lilcutie8916: My bible made predictons of alexander,cirus, merdes and persia, roman empire, etc and it all came through in exact details pls do explain that.

But didn't predict the Americas, Australia or Antarctica. It didn't predict Hitler or Stalin it simply contains a bunch of things the people of that time thought. Having only that knowledge today would be considered ignorant.

dekung:
why not point out where these predictions were made rather thn sking to go nd look for it? You re probably regurgitating what you pastor told you, unfortunatele you were not bold enough to sk him/her where the predictions are in your book

if i want u to read the bible it will be in order to receive GOD's word not to find faults but to enlighten ur ignorance read the book of Daniel begining to end .

lilcutie8916:
if i want u to read the bible it will be in order to receive GOD's word not to find faults but to enlighten ur ignorance read the book of Daniel begining to end .

You claimed the bible gave predictions yet you want me to go and search for those predictions, how lazy can someone be? Am sure you dont even read the same bible you are poiting me to. You want me to start searching for predictions I know does not exist? U re telling to go nd look for evidence where it does not exist. What a shame. Lazy child of a skydaddy

mkmyers45:

And the first uncaused cause is what?

God

MacDaddy01:


Fact 1; Try living on mars

Fact 2; Is this the science they teach in bible university? Evolution is a scientific theory. Go and read.

Fact 3; What caused god, mr cause n effect?

Fact 1 I was talking about earth not mars.

Fact 2 Evolution is a failed theory which needs to be revised.

Fact 3 Nothing caused God. God is a necessary, uncaused first cause.

Kay 17:

Which in turn leaves us with a paradox, because causality as a physical principle is yet to be explained.

It is explained by a being which is responsible for laying down all existing cause-effect relationships. That being is God.

Uyi Iredia:

Fact 1 I was talking about earth not mars.

Fact 2 Evolution is a failed theory which needs to be revised.

Fact 3 Nothing caused God. God is a necessary, uncaused first cause.

Fact 1; Most places on earth are uninhabitable by humans

Fact 2; Evolution is not failed theory just because Uyi Iredia says so. You arent a scientist and you say that with no basis. Even educated christians by the millions accept evolution. You only look foolish when you deny evolution. You have to prove why evolution fails scientifically.

Fact 3; God doesnt exist because such an uncaused cause requires infinity. Infinity does not exist in real life.

lilcutie8916: My bible made predictons of alexander,cirus, merdes and persia, roman empire, etc and it all came through in exact details pls do explain that.

That comment gave me cancer.

MacDaddy01:

Fact 1; Most places on earth are uninhabitable by humans

Fact 2; Evolution is not failed theory just because Uyi Iredia says so. You arent a scientist and you say that with no basis. Even educated christians by the millions accept evolution. You only look foolish when you deny evolution. You have to prove why evolution fails scientifically.

Fact 3; God doesnt exist because such an uncaused cause requires infinity. Infinity does not exist in real life.

Fact 1 I talked about life on earth and not humans only. Almost everywhere on earth's surface is home to one lifeform or another

Fact 2 Evolution is a failed theory because it's basis is a fallacious one. I have said that natural selection is a reification. Nature cannot think. Feel free to engage yourself in a fallacy.

Fact 3 An uncaused cause does not require an infinity because its existence isn't a contingent. BTW infinity does exist in an abstract sense eg numerically and in a physical sense eg spatially