babs787:

You claimed tha Ramadhan started with the Pagan and you claimed to have been a a great one . If  it started with the pagan, it means that Jesus, Moses and other prophets copied same from pagan (God forbid). Moses and Jesus fasted the same fast prophet observed and please do they fast white fasting, half a day, twenty fours, 12 to 12 etc like some christians have been doing during lent and which one do we have in the Bible as being practised by early prophets.

This is an isl'amic lie. NO where in the bible are we specifically told that Moses fasted for such a purpose as the ramadan fast. Jesus Christ fasted and gave us the correct attitude to have during a fast - do so in secret! I'm sure mus'lims do their ramadan in secret.
Neither followed the moon during their fast nor did they tell us to do so.

babs787:

What of Moses, Jesus and other prophets that fasted? How do we categorise christian fast?

Isaiah 57 describes the qualities of the christian fast. It is miles apart from the deciet you call a fast.

ha clap for urself you should have read further when God condemm such act, And then you should have read the NEW TEST when Christ condem such previous behaviour when his diciples put the question to him,

But what i find so surprising is that you  Mus lim state that the Bible is false and its been altered then why do you make reference to such thing since it is your firm believe that everything has been changed but you are quick to make reference to it.

@ 4HIM preach it to them AS Je sus said LET THOSE WHO HAVE EARS LET THEM HEAR AND LET THOSE WHO HAVE EYES LETH THEM SEE AND LET THOSE UNDERSTAND THROUGH THEIR HEART

@ sys OKAY MY BAD STAY BLESSED

Flowers212:

@ 4HIM preach it to them AS Je sus said LET THOSE WHO HAVE EARS LET THEM HEAR AND LET THOSE WHO HAVE EYES LETH THEM SEE AND LET THOSE UNDERSTAND THROUGH THEIR HEART

I did not hear what are you saying, because I just reading you post of your liar presentation you did not even respond for that ,

then you need to read again as i said say whatever u have to say

Flowers212:

ha clap for yourself you should have read further when God condemm such act, And then you should have read the NEW TEST when Christ condem such previous behaviour when his diciples put the question to him,

But what i find so surprising is that you  Mus lim state that the Bible is false and its been altered then why do you make reference to such thing since it is your firm believe that everything has been changed but you are quick to make reference to it.

Yes just to show you the contradiction therein and that it has been altered.

MORE INCEST & PORNOGRAPHY IN THE BIBLE  THE BIBLE THE MOST DANGEROUS BOOK

11. DAVID: "Man after God's own heart"— Commits adultery with Bath-sheba the wife of Uriah: (a) "And David sent messengers, and took her (Bathsheba); and she came in unto him, and he LAY (had intercourse) with her. . . 2 SAMUEL 11:4 (b) David wickedly caused the death of Uriah, the husband of Bath-sheba. 2 SAMUEL 11:6-25 (c) David shamelessly dances NAKED,"

3. ABRAHAM: He wedded his own sister (Sarah.) (?) (a) "Why saidst thou (O Abraham), she is my sister? So l might have taken her to me to WIFE . . . now take her (Sarah) and go thy way. GENESIS 12:19 (b) "And yet INDEED she (Sarah) is my sister (!) and she became my (Abraham's) WEE" GENESIS 20:12 Hagar Abraham's wife! " . . and (she, Sarah) gave her (Hagar) to her husband TO BE HIS WIFE GENESIS 16:3

@sysuser 7 Flower 212

You can post your rejoinders one at a time we dicuss if you are ready for an intelligent discussion/debate but in the meantime, let me quickly attend to sysuser's post.

Quote
DO NOT MAKE IDOLS
Muhammmad invented God a Go d of his imagination and said that he is in heaven above when clearly All ah cannot reveal himself since he does not exist.  Muhammma d also had the Musl ims bow towards Mecc a (a sign of worship) and kiss a stone called H ujr  Asw at in the middle of the Ka'ba .

I have been telling not to just post but provide you proof as well. If you have been reading my posts, you would have been seeing me giving you Qu ranic and biblical verses to back my posts just like I did in my post to flower 212.

Which God did he invent?


Qura n 3 v 67: Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a Christian; but he was true in Faith, and bowed his will to God's (Which is Islam), and he joined not gods with God.  


Qu ran 4 v 116; "God forgiveth not (The sin of) joining other gods with Him; but He forgiveth whom He pleaseth other sins than this: one who joins other gods with God, Hath strayed far, far away (from the right).

Qu ran 47 v 19 : Know, therefore, that there is no god but God, and ask forgiveness for thy fault, and for the men and women who believe: for God knows how ye move about and how ye dwell in your homes.

Q u ran 28 v 70 :And He is God: There is no god but He. To Him be praise, at the first and at the last: for Him is the Command, and to Him shall ye (all) be brought back.  


Q u ra n 42 v 11: (He is) the Creator of the heavens and the earth: He has made for you pairs from among yourselves, and pairs among cattle: by this means does He multiply you: there is nothing whatever like unto Him, and He is the One that hears and sees (all things).  

Quote
KEEP THE SABBATH DAY
Muhamm ad changed the Sabbat h by calling Friday holy and failed to keep the Sabb ath because the Je ws refused to accept him so he changed his day from the Jewi sh Sabb ath.

Quote

Obvious plagiarizism of the bible or jewish believes

Was Sabath for Jews or Muslims?

Read please:

Q u ran 4 v 154: And for their covenant we raised over them (the towering height) of Mount (Sinai); and (on another occasion) we said: "Enter the gate with humility"; and (once again) we commanded them: "Transgress not in the matter of the sabbath." And we took from them a solemn covenant.


Q u ran 7 v 163: Ask them concerning the town standing close by the sea. Behold! they transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath. For on the day of their Sabbath their fish did come to them, openly holding up their heads, but on the day they had no Sabbath, they came not: thus did We make a trial of them, for they were given to transgression.


Qu ran 16 v 124: The Sabbath was only made (strict) for those who disagreed (as to its observance); But God will judge between them on the Day of Judgment, as to their differences.

The verse below is for muslims

Quran 62 v 9: O ye who believe! When the call is proclaimed to prayer on Friday (the Day of Assembly), hasten earnestly to the Remembrance of God, and leave off business (and traffic): That is best for you if ye but knew!

Quote
DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY
Muhamm ad married his adopted son's wife Zain ab because he lusted after her, Za id bin Tha bit divorced his wife to allow Muha mmad to marry her.  Muham mad slept with his slaves who were married claiming he had a religi ous right by justifying his behaviour by the Qur' an.  He also forced himself on women his followers captured.

Quote

sexual immorality of sodom and gommorah proportions

Do you care for verses on incest, fornication, adultery, lust etc from the bible?

Q u ran 17 v 32; Nor come nigh to adultery: for it is a shameful (deed) and an evil, opening the road (to other evils).

Qu ran 24 v 2: The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by God, if ye believe in God and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.

Qu ran 24 v 3; Let no man guilty of adultery or fornication marry and but a woman similarly guilty, or an Unbeliever: nor let any but such a man or an Unbeliever marry such a woman: to the Believers such a thing is forbidden.

Qu ran 25 v 68: Those who invoke not, with God, any other god, nor slay such life as God has made sacred except for just cause, nor commit fornication; - and any that does this (not only) meets punishment.

Qu ran 25 v 68 - 70:Those who invoke not, with God, any other god, nor slay such life as God has made sacred except for just cause, nor commit fornication; - and any that does this (not only) meets punishment. (But) the Penalty on the Day of Judgment will be doubled to him, and he will dwell therein in ignominy,- Unless he repents, believes, and works righteous deeds, for God will change the evil of such persons into good, and God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

Quote
DO NOT STEAL
Muha mmad robbed and pillag ed, he stole from the Qur aish tribe by conducting 29 of the 69 raids against the passing Q uraish caravans in the desert stealing their money.

Quote
Obvious stealing , armed robber etc

Proof please

Qu ran 5 v 38 - 39:As to the thief, Male or female, cut off his or her hands: a punishment by way of example, from God, for their crime: and God is Exalted in power. But if the thief repents after his crime, and amends his conduct, God turneth to him in forgiveness; for God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.


Qu ran 60 v 12: Oh prophet! Accept the pledges of the believing women, when they come to take their oaths of allegiance to you. Provided, they pledge that they would not join any partners with Allah, would not steal, commit adultery or kill their children, and would not indulge in slander, and would not concoct lies on their own. Also, that they would not disobey you in what is right. Seek forgiveness for them from Allah! Certainly Allah is the most Forgiving and the most Merciful.

Quote
DO NOT COVET
Muha mmad coveted his adopted son's wife and he coveted his Jewi sh neighbours properties and money going out to steal their wealth and driving them out of Ara bia to the point of beheading and killing them

Obvious covetiosness and "technical" incest

Proof please and do you care for biblical verses on the above?

Let me just gi e you two on the many verses on covetousness

Qu ran 4 v 32; And do not covet that by which Allah has made some of you excel others; men shall have the benefit of what they earn and women shall have the benefit of what they earn; and ask Allah of His grace; surely Allah knows all things.  


Qu ran 15 v 88: Cast not thine eyes on the [good things] which we have bestowed on several of [the unbelievers, so as to covet the same; neither be thou grieved on their account. Behave thy self with meekness towards the true believers;  


@Flower212 & Sysusers

You can send your pst one at a time and we discuss.
Thanks

MC Usman:

Maybe you did not read the bible before thought re- re and convertion to christaininty.

INCESTIN THE BIBLE: " IN GOD'S BOOK (?) BETWEEN A FATHER AND HIS DAUGHTERS: (a) "That night they (both the daughters of Lot) gave him (their father Lot) wine to drink and the older daughter had INTERCOURSE with him , "The next day the older daughter said to her sister, I slept with him last night. now let's get him drunk again tonight, and you sleep with him. Then each of us will have a child by our father. So that night they got him drunk and the younger daughter had INTERCOURSE with him , "In this way both of Lot's daughters became PREGNANT by their father. " GENESIS 19:33-35 (From the "Good News Bible- In Today's English".

Maybe if you had bothered to read the consequences of that "incest" you'd have noticed that Moab and Ammon, the two nations born from that incestous relationship were eventually destroyed by God.
To use this to PRETEND DELIBERATELY that the bible condones incest is to continue in the ways of your father the devil, for he hath been a liar from the begining.

MC Usman:

In the older Versions, like the King James and the Roman Catholic Versions, "SEXUAL INTERCOURSE" is vaguely described as "COLLECTING THE SEED OF OUR FATHER." INCEST BETWEEN MOTHER AND SON: (b) "While Jacob (Israel) was living in the land, Reuben (his firstborn, his eldest son) had SEXUAL INTERCOURSE with Bilhah, his father's concubine.

Did you read the consequence of Reuben's action? Here it is:
Gen 49:4 Unstable as water, thou shalt not excel; because thou wentest up to thy father's bed; then defiledst thou it: he went up to my couch.

Again to DELIBERATELY give off the FALSE idea that the bible condones incest is to expose urself as a fraud.

MC Usman:

GENESIS 35:22. The older Versions of the Bible, use the word, "lay" for SEXUAL INTERCOURSE. INCEST BETWEEN FATHER-IN-LAW AND DAUGHTER-IN-LAW: (c) "When Judah saw her (Tamar, his daughter-in-law), he thought she was a prostitute, because she had covered her face. "He went over to her at the side of the road and said, "ALL RIGHT, HOW MUCH DO YOU CHARGE?" (He did not know that she was his daughter-in-law) {The words in parenthesis i.e. within brackets from He did not know to daughter-in-law are not in the original Hebrew manuscripts. They are the editors g loss.}

This is another DELIBERATE HALF TRUTH being paraded by dubious mus'lims.
Lets get the facts straight:
1. Er, Judas' son who married Tamar was ALREADY dead . . . based on the fact that we still have cultures in 2008 Nigeria where relatives can marry the wives of their dead family members to raise children in the name of the deceased then this story is not as INCREDULOUS as this liars want it to sound.

2. Tamar DECIEVED Judas into sleeping with her to raise children for Er. Judas NEVER WILFULLY chose to sleep with Tamar UNLIKE moha'mmed who WILFULLY, DELIBERATELY and WICKEDLY stole the wife of his own nephew by a commandment from al'lah . . . a clear fact that MC Usman is desperate that no one notices.

MC Usman:

CONCUBINE and WIFE are synonymous terms in the Bible. Look for it in the index under ''KETURAH" (the third wife of Abraham).

This again is NOT true . . . the bible CLEARLY specifies the difference between a concubine and a wife in the bible. Solomon is recorded as having 1000 wives and 300 concubines . . . there was no attempt at a mix-up.

MC Usman:

INCEST AND RAPE BETWEEN BROTHER AND SISTER (d) " . . he took hold of her (Thamar, his sister, not to be confused with Tamar in "c" above,, and said unto her, Come lie with me (have sex with me), my sister. "And she answered him, Nay, my brother (Amnon, one of the sons of David, the man after God's own heart) do not force me . . . "But he would not listen to her, and since he was stronger than she was, he overpowered her and RAPED her (his sister). " 2 Samuel 13:5-14 WHOLESALE RAPE AND INCEST BETWEEN SON AND HIS MOTHERS! (e) So they set up a tent for Absalom (another son of King David) on the palace roof, and in the sight of everyone, Absalom went in and had INTERCOURSE with his father's concubines " 2 SAMUELS 16:22

We all know that Amnon paid with his life for what the bible acknowledges was a grievous sin not only in the eyes of the Lord but in the eyes of King David who banished Amnon from the palace for this rape.

The lying mus'lim again deliberately forgets that clear fact.

MC Usman:

". . . In the sight of every one" is rendered in the King James Version as "in the sight of all Israel." This is a fulfillment of God's promise to David the King:
"Thus saith the Lord, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee (David) out of thine own house, and I will take THY WIVES before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbor (actually thy son) and he shall lie (have sexual intercourse) with thy wives in the sight of sun (for the whole world to watch the fun).
For thou didst it secretly (with Bath-Sheba the wife of Uriah): but I will do this thing before ALL Israel, and before the sun." 2 Samuel 12:11-12

This was God's punishment to David for stealing another man's wife . . . on the other hand the qu'ran gleefully "wallows" in the acknowledgement that a certain rapist was given the sexual strength of 30 men and was given the right to rape his slaves and bounties of war.

Absalom is the culprit who overthrew his father, David, for a short period and went in unto his father's concubines. Again the bible EXPLICITLY tells us how Absalom met his dreadful end . . . a point MC Usman is hoping gets lost in his verbiage.

MC Usman:

You can well guess where "Penthouse" and "Playboy" got their inspiration from. Wherefrom if not from the Book of Books?

Its more likely from the qu'ran which condones marrying multiple wives, sanctions temporary marriages, gave moham'med and his fellow brigands the right to slaves and women captured in war, including 6yr old girls.

MC Usman:

Concubine is a normal occurance word wife in the Bible.

again this is false.

And how many Contradiction is in the qur an  lets examining them carefully

Qur an is false due to the fact that a great number of the recit ers (h afiz) were slain at the battle of al-Yam ama, taking those parts of the Qur an that they alone had memorized to the grave with them, never to be recited again.

It was these same recit ers i.e., Masu d, Kab b etc., who were writing down codic es from memory which led to contradictions, additions, omissions and to thousands of variant readings among the competing texts. This demonstrates the faulty memories of the rec iters.

Interestingly, we are told that even Muham mad himself forgot certain verses:  

'The Messen ger of God heard a man recite by night and said, "May God have mercy on that man! He has just reminded me of a verse so-and-so and I had forgotten from sura such-and-such." ' (Bu rton, p. 129, Buk hari, "K. Fad'il al Qur an", bab nisy an al Qur an)

The Prophet recited the Qur an and omitted an aya. When he had finished the prayer, he asked, 'Is Ubayy in the mosque?' 'Here I am, Messe nger of God.'

'Then why didn't you prompt me?'

'I thought the aya had been withdrawn.'

'It hasn't been withdrawn, I forgot it.' (Ibid., pp. 65-66, `Abdul Rahma n al Tha`alibi, "al Jaw ahir al Hisan fi tafsi r al Qur'an", 2 vols., Al giers

Flowers212:

ha clap for yourself you should have read further when God condemm such act, And then you should have read the NEW TEST when Christ condem such previous behaviour when his diciples put the question to him,

Please back your claim with a verse.

And again are you telling me that previously these act were condoled by God and the other God jesus came and condemed it all. the verse please.

11. DAVID: "Man after God's own heart"— Commits adultery with Bath-sheba the wife of Uriah: (a) "And David sent messengers, and took her (Bathsheba); and she came in unto him, and he LAY (had intercourse) with her. . . 2 SAMUEL 11:4 (b) David wickedly caused the death of Uriah, the husband of Bath-sheba. 2 SAMUEL 11:6-25 (c) David shamelessly dances NAKED,"

1. Which was why the Bible did not lie about the fact that what David did was wrong

2. Which was why God punished David , with the fact that the Sword would not depart from his family

--------------------------------

3. ABRAHAM: He wedded his own sister (Sarah.) (?) (a) "Why saidst thou (O Abraham), she is my sister? So l might have taken her to me to WIFE . . . now take her (Sarah) and go thy way. GENESIS 12:19 (b) "And yet INDEED she (Sarah) is my sister (!) and she became my (Abraham's) WEE" GENESIS 20:12 Hagar Abraham's wife! " . . and (she, Sarah) gave her (Hagar) to her husband TO BE HIS WIFE GENESIS 16:3

1. Yes , which is why the Bible did not lie about the fact that Abraham, Jacob and some other people practised Polygamy (nonetheless and despite their sins God still forgave them and considered them to be righteous, by His own standard and not by the standard of men)

2. Yes, even Adam married His own Flesh and bone (Eve) (not a big deal provided says so, )

3. Hagar was a "servant" (Handmaid) to Sarah, who gave birth to Ishmeal,

4. Abraham still had other wives apart from Sarah and  Hagar

Was goign to but don't need to as 4HIM  has backed it up and i have to say did a really good job, Read his reply to you and you will see it for urself

Flower 212, sysuser & 4him

Some verses for you:

Song of Songs 8:1-3 "If only you were to me like a brother, who was nursed at my mother's breasts! Then, if I found you outside, I would kiss you, and no one would despise me.  I would lead you and bring you to my mother's house-- she who has taught me. I would give you spiced wine to drink ,the nectar of my pomegranates.  His left arm is under my head and his right arm embraces me."

Song of Songs 4:5 "Your two breasts are like two fawns, like twin fawns of a gazelle that browse among the lilies."  


Song of Songs 4:10 "How delightful is your love, my sister, my bride! How much more pleasing is your love than wine, and the fragrance of your perfume than any spice!"  

Song of Songs 7:1-4, 8-9)"  I said 'I will climb the palm tree; I will take hold of its fruit.'  May your breasts be like the clusters of the vine, the fragrance of your breath like apples, and your mouth like the best wine.

2 Samuel 11:2-4  "One evening David got up from his bed and walked around on the roof of the palace. From the roof he saw a woman bathing. The woman was very beautiful, and David sent someone to find out about her. The man said, 'Isn't this Bathsheba, the daughter of Eliam and the wife of Uriah the Hittite?'  Then David sent messengers to get her. She came to him, and he slept with her. (She had purified herself from her uncleanness.) Then she went back home."

MC Usman:

MORE INCEST & PORNOGRAPHY IN THE BIBLE  THE BIBLE THE MOST DANGEROUS BOOK

11. DAVID: "Man after God's own heart"— Commits adultery with Bath-sheba the wife of Uriah: (a) "And David sent messengers, and took her (Bathsheba); and she came in unto him, and he LAY (had intercourse) with her. . . 2 SAMUEL 11:4 (b) David wickedly caused the death of Uriah, the husband of Bath-sheba. 2 SAMUEL 11:6-25 (c) David shamelessly dances NAKED,"

1. David's first punishment for this grievous sin was that he lost the first child born to him through Bathsheba. You, MC Usman, also quoted the full curse that God placed on the lineage of David for this very sin.
No where did God pat David on the back for stealing another man's wife . . . now contrast that to moha'mmed's lifestyle and we see the clear difference.

2. David never danced naked . . . Micah was simply expressing displeasure that a King of Israel would refuse to behave like royalty.

MC Usman:

3. ABRAHAM: He wedded his own sister (Sarah.) (?) (a) "Why saidst thou (O Abraham), she is my sister? So l might have taken her to me to WIFE . . . now take her (Sarah) and go thy way. GENESIS 12:19 (b) "And yet INDEED she (Sarah) is my sister (!) and she became my (Abraham's) WEE" GENESIS 20:12 Hagar Abraham's wife! " . . and (she, Sarah) gave her (Hagar) to her husband TO BE HIS WIFE GENESIS 16:3

Mus'lims today are still marrying their first cousins.

Marriages between half brothers and sisters were not uncommon 3000 yrs ago.

Hes But at the end of the day God blessed Issac not Abrahams other sons, Isac was the chosen one becasue Sarah is the firs wife, Why is that you Mus lim like to dwell on the old Test read the New it condem any man that has more than one wife

babs787:

Flower 212, sysuser & 4him

Some verses for you:

Song of Songs 8:1-3 "If only you were to me like a brother, who was nursed at my mother's breasts! Then, if I found you outside, I would kiss you, and no one would despise me. I would lead you and bring you to my mother's house-- she who has taught me. I would give you spiced wine to drink ,the nectar of my pomegranates. His left arm is under my head and his right arm embraces me."

Song of Songs 4:5 "Your two breasts are like two fawns, like twin fawns of a gazelle that browse among the lilies."


Song of Songs 4:10 "How delightful is your love, my sister, my bride! How much more pleasing is your love than wine, and the fragrance of your perfume than any spice!"

Song of Songs 7:1-4, 8-9)" I said 'I will climb the palm tree; I will take hold of its fruit.' May your breasts be like the clusters of the vine, the fragrance of your breath like apples, and your mouth like the best wine.

what is new here? It is now a crime to write a poem?

babs787:

2 Samuel 11:2-4 "One evening David got up from his bed and walked around on the roof of the palace. From the roof he saw a woman bathing. The woman was very beautiful, and David sent someone to find out about her. The man said, 'Isn't this Bathsheba, the daughter of Eliam and the wife of Uriah the Hittite?' Then David sent messengers to get her. She came to him, and he slept with her. (She had purified herself from her uncleanness.) Then she went back home."

and how many times are we going to point out David's punishment for what the bible was quick to acknowledge as a grievous sin?

@4HIM you sure know your stuff welldone

Flowers212:

@4HIM you sure know your stuff welldone

Thanks . . . you just have to stand up to these purveyors of lies, deciet and manipulation.
The same mus'lims crying about incest in the bible and comparing it to playboy magazine were the first to go threaten Seun with violence when christians exposed even worse in the qu'ran.

MC Usman shouts about Judas and his daughter-in law . . . does he care to read about Moh'ammed and his own son's wife whom al'lah said moh'ammed could go and claim by force even when his son was still alive?

MC Usman talks about David and Bathsheba . . . how many times did moh'ammed pillage towns and tell his men to rape the women?
Is MC Usman also apalled about marrying 6yr olds?

tHANK YOU ITS THE SAME QUESTION I HAVE BEEN ASKING AND YET THEY HAVE NO ANSWER,

@Sysuser

11. DAVID: "Man after God's own heart"— Commits adultery with Bath-sheba the wife of Uriah: (a) "And David sent messengers, and took her (Bathsheba); and she came in unto him, and he LAY (had intercourse) with her. . . 2 SAMUEL 11:4 (b) David wickedly caused the death of Uriah, the husband of Bath-sheba. 2 SAMUEL 11:6-25 (c) David shamelessly dances NAKED,"

1. Which was why the Bible did not lie about the fact that what David did was wrong

I thought he was a prophet and what example did he lay for you to emulate?

2. Which was why God punished David , with the fact that the Sword would not depart from his family

What was the punishment please?

Quote
3. ABRAHAM: He wedded his own sister (Sarah.) (?) (a) "Why saidst thou (O Abraham), she is my sister? So l might have taken her to me to WIFE . . . now take her (Sarah) and go thy way. GENESIS 12:19 (b) "And yet INDEED she (Sarah) is my sister (!) and she became my (Abraham's) WEE" GENESIS 20:12 Hagar Abraham's wife! " . . and (she, Sarah) gave her (Hagar) to her husband TO BE HIS WIFE GENESIS 16:3

1. Yes , which is why the Bible did not lie about the fact that Abraham, Jacob and some other people practised Polygamy (nonetheless and despite their sins God still forgave them and considered them to be righteous, by His own standard and not by the standard of men)

What did you call Abraham marrying his own sister?
Did God punish them for polygamy?


2. Yes, even Adam married His own Flesh and bone (Eve) (not a big deal provided says so, )


So it is  allowed to marry one's flesh?

3. Hagar was a "servant" (Handmaid) to Sarah, who gave birth to Ishmeal,

Genesis 16:3  So after Abraham had been living in Canaan ten years, Sarai his wife took her Egyptian maidservant Hagar and gave her to her husband to be his wife.

Genesis 25:9 Then his sons Isaac and Ishmael, buried him (Abraham) in the cave of Machpelah.

We can see from the above verses that Hagar was Abraham's wife. It seems you dod not even read your bible at all.

Prevailing Nuzi Laws of marriage tell us that such marriage contracts were legal in the days of Abraham and the child born of a handmaid or slave-girl would have the same status as one born to the wife, even if the wife had a child of her own later.

For example, when one traces the maternal side of the children of Israel, we read in the book of Genesis that Jacob later called Israel in Gen 32 v28) had four wives. He married

1. Leah in Genesis  29 v 22-23)

2.Rachel  in Genesis 29 v 28

3. A slave girl Bilhah  in Genesis 30 v 4)

4. Another slave girl Zilpah in Genesis  30 v 9

From these four wives came the twelve Children of Israel:

1. Reuben

2. Simeon

3. Levi

4. Judah

5. Issachar

6.Zebulun

7.Joseph

8.Benjamin

9.Dan

10.Naptali

11.Gad

12.Asher

All twelve of these children make up the Israelites and are all referred as a combined group.

Four of the twelve children (Gad, Dan, Naphtali and Asher) were sons of the slave-girls. Thus, it follows that about one third of all Israelis are children of slave-girls!

4. Abraham still had other wives apart from Sarah and  Hagar

Supporting polygamy huh?

@BABS it seems that you are an hour late all the questions that you just copied and paste has been answered for you by 4HIM just take 5mins of your time and read it im sure you will find it helpful

@4Him

what is new here? It is now a crime to write a poem?

What is the moral behimd those poems?

and how many times are we going to point out David's punishment for what the bible was quick to acknowledge as a grievous sin?

Let me read your below quote before commenting on your above post with regards to David's punishment

1. David's first punishment for this grievous sin was that he lost the first child born to him through Bathsheba. You, MC Usman, also quoted the full curse that God placed on the lineage of David for this very sin.

Now David, what is the punishment for adultery, fornication in Jewish law?
Where did God say that He killed his son as a result of the adultery he committed?
Is God a just one by leaving DAVID that committed sin to killing his son, is his son that committed the sin?

He committed two grievous sins:
1. Having sex with his neighbour's wife
2. Responsible for the death of her husband

So why was he left unpunished for the sins and can you preach the above to your children?

Do you know that Jesus' family lineage comes from a sick night of incest!

You believe that Jesus is God which means that God’s family line is a result of incest!

(No ridiculing, request for the verses and I will serve you real hot)

No where did God pat David on the back for stealing another man's wife . . . now contrast that to moha'mmed's lifestyle and we see the clear difference.

Proof please

2. David never danced naked . . . Micah was simply expressing displeasure that a King of Israel would refuse to behave like royalty.

Do you read your bible in an upside direction?

Because some biblical prophets or people practised polygamy does not mean it was right, also it does not mean the bible says it was right, instead the bible shows us that it is not right and that those people that did that ended creating problems either for themselves for future generations that were yet to be born.

By the way , MC Usman, babs787, Olabowale etc, where do you think the deep hatred from Arabs (and other gullible muslims) towards Jews and Christians comes from (apart from the spiritual hatred by the devil transmitted through them).

It comes from the polygamy problem created between the descendants of "Ishmeal, Esau and Jacob and children of Keturah", hence why its funny that some of you m.u.s.lim.s who are determined to die for alllah against, Christians and Jews , obviously don't even understand the reason for the deep rooted hatred towards Christians and Jews,

Its is painful for any Ishmealite (of which i believe Arabs are one) or Edomite to accept that Isrealites are the chosen people and the Isaac was the promised child (to be born to Abraham via his wife Sarah), Despite that Ishmeal was already an adult, at that time.

The funniest thing is that , God still blessed Ishmeal (because he was Abraham's son) despite Ishmeal not being the promised child,

Gen 21:13  And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed.



----------------------------------------------

Do you m.us.lims even notice the fact that your lies about Ishmeal being the promised child, is exposed by the following:

1. Abraham was about to sacrifise his "promised child" (not ishmeal who is probably already an adult by then) before God stopped him.



Gen 16:15  And Hagar bare Abram a son: and Abram called his son's name, which Hagar bare, Ishmael.
Gen 16:16  And Abram was fourscore and six years old, when Hagar bare Ishmael to Abram.

Gen 21:5  And Abraham was an hundred years old, when his son Isaac was born unto him.

Gen 21:17  And God heard the voice of the lad; and the angel of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said unto her, What aileth thee, Hagar? fear not; for God hath heard the voice of the lad where he is.
Gen 21:18  Arise, lift up the lad, and hold him in thine hand; for I will make him a great nation.
Gen 21:19  And God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water; and she went, and filled the bottle with water, and gave the lad drink.
Gen 21:20  And God was with the lad; and he grew, and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer.

Gen 21:21  And he dwelt in the wilderness of Paran: and his mother took him a wife out of the land of Egypt.




--------------------------------------------------------------

2. Abraham had already sent away Ishmeal and his mother "Hagar" away,, even before the occurence of the situation in which he was told to sacrifised his "promised child" ,



Gen 21:9  And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking.
Gen 21:10  Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac.
Gen 21:11  And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of his son.
Gen 21:12  And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Gen 21:13  And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed.
Gen 21:14  And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread, and a bottle of water, and gave it unto Hagar, putting it on her shoulder, and the child, and sent her away: and she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beersheba.
Gen 21:15  And the water was spent in the bottle, and she cast the child under one of the shrubs.
Gen 21:16  And she went, and sat her down over against him a good way off, as it were a bowshot: for she said, Let me not see the death of the child. And she sat over against him, and lift up her voice, and wept.
Gen 21:17  And God heard the voice of the lad; and the angel of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said unto her, What aileth thee, Hagar? fear not; for God hath heard the voice of the lad where he is.
Gen 21:18  Arise, lift up the lad, and hold him in thine hand; for I will make him a great nation.
Gen 21:19  And God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water; and she went, and filled the bottle with water, and gave the lad drink.
Gen 21:20  And God was with the lad; and he grew, and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer.
Gen 21:21  And he dwelt in the wilderness of Paran: and his mother took him a wife out of the land of Egypt.


Gen 22:1  And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.
Gen 22:2  And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.
Gen 22:3  And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ass, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him.
Gen 22:4  Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off.
Gen 22:5  And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you.
Gen 22:6  And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it upon Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together.
Gen 22:7  And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?
Gen 22:8  And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
Gen 22:9  And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood.
Gen 22:10  And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.
Gen 22:11  And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
Gen 22:12  And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.
Gen 22:13  And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.
Gen 22:14  And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.
Gen 22:15  And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
Gen 22:16  And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
Gen 22:17  That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
Gen 22:18  And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.
Gen 22:19  So Abraham returned unto his young men, and they rose up and went together to Beersheba; and Abraham dwelt at Beersheba.
Gen 22:20  And it came to pass after these things, that it was told Abraham, saying, Behold, Milcah, she hath also born children unto thy brother Nahor;
Gen 22:21  Huz his firstborn, and Buz his brother, and Kemuel the father of Aram,
Gen 22:22  And Chesed, and Hazo, and Pildash, and Jidlaph, and Bethuel.
Gen 22:23  And Bethuel begat Rebekah: these eight Milcah did bear to Nahor, Abraham's brother.
Gen 22:24  And his concubine, whose name was Reumah, she bare also Tebah, and Gaham, and Thahash, and Maachah.


a. so you see Abraham was 86 years old when Ishmeal was born.

b. so you see Abraham was 100years old when Isaac was born.

c. This means that Ishmeal was "older than 14 years" when Abraham sent him and his mother away , thus would have also being much older by the time God told Abraham to sacrifise Isaac his only child (not his only adult).

As a matter of fact the bible verses shows that Ishmeal "might" already gotten married to a woman out of the land of egypt , by the time Abraham was about to sacrifise his only son.


----------------------------------------------------

3. God told Abraham to sacrifise isaac and not ishmeal (or any other son for that matter)



Gen 22:2  And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.




, QED

@4him


Your post below caught my attention, hence my responding to it.

This is another DELIBERATE HALF TRUTH being paraded by dubious mus'lims.
Lets get the facts straight:
1. Er, Judas' son who married Tamar was ALREADY dead . . . based on the fact that we still have cultures in 2008 Nigeria where relatives can marry the wives of their dead family members to raise children in the name of the deceased then this story is not as INCREDULOUS as this liars want it to sound.

2. Tamar DECIEVED Judas into sleeping with her to raise children for Er. Judas NEVER WILFULLY chose to sleep with Tamar UNLIKE moha'mmed who WILFULLY, DELIBERATELY and WICKEDLY stole the wife of his own nephew by a commandment from al'lah . . . a clear fact that MC Usman is desperate that no one notices.

Let me serve you the full stories and how onanism started from the bible. The verses are self-explanatory with regards to your lies above and please take note of the highlighted words;



Genesis chapter 18:

1 And it came to pass at that time, that Judah went down from his brethren, and turned in to a certain Adullamite, whose name was Hirah.

2 And Judah saw there a daughter of a certain Canaanite, whose name was Shuah; and he took her, and went in unto her.

3 And she conceived, and bare a son; and he called his name Er.

4 And she conceived again, and bare a son; and she called his name Onan.

5 And she yet again conceived, and bare a son; and called his name Shelah: and he was at Chezib, when she bare him.

6 And Judah took a wife for Er his firstborn, whose name was Tamar. 7 And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the LORD; and the LORD slew him.

8 And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.

9 And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.

10 And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.

11 Then said Judah to Tamar his daughter in law, Remain a widow at thy father's house, till Shelah my son be grown: for he said, Lest peradventure he die also, as his brethren did. And Tamar went and dwelt in her father's house.

12 And in process of time the daughter of Shuah Judah's wife died; and Judah was comforted, and went up unto his sheepshearers to Timnath, he and his friend Hirah the Adullamite.

13 And it was told Tamar, saying, Behold thy father in law goeth up to Timnath to shear his sheep.

14 And she put her widow's garments off from her, and covered her with a vail, and wrapped herself, and sat in an open place, which is by the way to Timnath; for she saw that Shelah was grown, and she was not given unto him to wife.

15 When Judah saw her, he thought her to be an harlot; because she had covered her face.

16 And he turned unto her by the way, and said, Go to, I pray thee, let me come in unto thee; (for he knew not that she was his daughter in law.) And she said, What wilt thou give me, that thou mayest come in unto me?

17 And he said, I will send thee a kid from the flock. And she said, Wilt thou give me a pledge, till thou send it?


18 And he said, What pledge shall I give thee? And she said, Thy signet, and thy bracelets, and thy staff that is in thine hand. And he gave it her, and came in unto her, and she conceived by him.

19 And she arose, and went away, and laid by her vail from her, and put on the garments of her widowhood.

20 And Judah sent the kid by the hand of his friend the Adullamite, to receive his pledge from the woman's hand: but he found her not.

21 Then he asked the men of that place, saying, Where is the harlot, that was openly by the way side? And they said, There was no harlot in this place.

22 And he returned to Judah, and said, I cannot find her; and also the men of the place said, that there was no harlot in this place.

23 And Judah said, Let her take it to her, lest we be shamed: behold, I sent this kid, and thou hast not found her.

24 And it came to pass about three months after, that it was told Judah, saying, Tamar thy daughter in law hath played the harlot; and also, behold, she is with child by whoredom. And Judah said, Bring her forth, and let her be burnt.

25 When she was brought forth, she sent to her father in law, saying, By the man, whose these are, am I with child: and she said, Discern, I pray thee, whose are these, the signet, and bracelets, and staff.

26 And Judah acknowledged them, and said, She hath been more righteous than I; because that I gave her not to Shelah my son. And he knew her again no more.

27[b] And it came to pass in the time of her travail, that, behold, twins were in her womb. [/b]

28 And it came to pass, when she travailed, that the one put out his hand: and the midwife took and bound upon his hand a scarlet thread, saying, This came out first.

29 And it came to pass, as he drew back his hand, that, behold, his brother came out: and she said, How hast thou broken forth? this breach be upon thee: therefore his name was called Pharez.

30 And afterward came out his brother, that had the scarlet thread upon his hand: and his name was called Zarah.


Do you still know that Jesus' family lineage came from incest?

Because some biblical prophets or people practised polygamy does not mean it was right, also it does not mean the bible says it was right, instead the bible shows us that it is not right and that those people that did that ended creating problems either for themselves for future generations that were yet to be born.

By the way , MC Usman, babs787, Olabowale etc, where do you think the deep hatred from Arabs (and other gullible muslims) towards Jews and Christians comes from (apart from the spiritual hatred by the devil transmitted through them).

It comes from the polygamy problem created between the descendants of "Ishmeal, Esau and Jacob and children of Keturah", hence why its funny that some of you m.u.s.lim.s who are determined to die for alllah against, Christians and Jews , obviously don't even understand the reason for the deep rooted hatred towards Christians and Jews,

Its is painful for any Ishmealite (of which i believe Arabs are one) or Edomite to accept that Isrealites are the chosen people and the Isaac was the promised child (to be born to Abraham via his wife Sarah), Despite that Ishmeal was already an adult, at that time.

The funniest thing is that , God still blessed Ishmeal (because he was Abraham's son) despite Ishmeal not being the promised child,

Gen 21:13  And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed.



----------------------------------------------

Do you m.us.lims even notice the fact that your lies about Ishmeal being the promised child, is exposed by the following:

1. Abraham was about to sacrifise his "promised child" (not ishmeal who is probably already an adult by then) before God stopped him.



Gen 16:15  And Hagar bare Abram a son: and Abram called his son's name, which Hagar bare, Ishmael.
Gen 16:16  And Abram was fourscore and six years old, when Hagar bare Ishmael to Abram.

Gen 21:5  And Abraham was an hundred years old, when his son Isaac was born unto him.

Gen 21:17  And God heard the voice of the lad; and the angel of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said unto her, What aileth thee, Hagar? fear not; for God hath heard the voice of the lad where he is.
Gen 21:18  Arise, lift up the lad, and hold him in thine hand; for I will make him a great nation.
Gen 21:19  And God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water; and she went, and filled the bottle with water, and gave the lad drink.
Gen 21:20  And God was with the lad; and he grew, and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer.

Gen 21:21  And he dwelt in the wilderness of Paran: and his mother took him a wife out of the land of Egypt.




--------------------------------------------------------------

2. Abraham had already sent away Ishmeal and his mother "Hagar" away,, even before the occurence of the situation in which he was told to sacrifised his "promised child" ,



Gen 21:9  And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking.
Gen 21:10  Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac.
Gen 21:11  And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of his son.
Gen 21:12  And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Gen 21:13  And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed.
Gen 21:14  And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread, and a bottle of water, and gave it unto Hagar, putting it on her shoulder, and the child, and sent her away: and she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beersheba.
Gen 21:15  And the water was spent in the bottle, and she cast the child under one of the shrubs.
Gen 21:16  And she went, and sat her down over against him a good way off, as it were a bowshot: for she said, Let me not see the death of the child. And she sat over against him, and lift up her voice, and wept.
Gen 21:17  And God heard the voice of the lad; and the angel of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said unto her, What aileth thee, Hagar? fear not; for God hath heard the voice of the lad where he is.
Gen 21:18  Arise, lift up the lad, and hold him in thine hand; for I will make him a great nation.
Gen 21:19  And God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water; and she went, and filled the bottle with water, and gave the lad drink.
Gen 21:20  And God was with the lad; and he grew, and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer.
Gen 21:21  And he dwelt in the wilderness of Paran: and his mother took him a wife out of the land of Egypt.


Gen 22:1  And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.
Gen 22:2  And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.
Gen 22:3  And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ass, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him.
Gen 22:4  Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off.
Gen 22:5  And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you.
Gen 22:6  And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it upon Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together.
Gen 22:7  And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?
Gen 22:8  And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
Gen 22:9  And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood.
Gen 22:10  And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.
Gen 22:11  And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
Gen 22:12  And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.
Gen 22:13  And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.
Gen 22:14  And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.
Gen 22:15  And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
Gen 22:16  And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
Gen 22:17  That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
Gen 22:18  And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.
Gen 22:19  So Abraham returned unto his young men, and they rose up and went together to Beersheba; and Abraham dwelt at Beersheba.
Gen 22:20  And it came to pass after these things, that it was told Abraham, saying, Behold, Milcah, she hath also born children unto thy brother Nahor;
Gen 22:21  Huz his firstborn, and Buz his brother, and Kemuel the father of Aram,
Gen 22:22  And Chesed, and Hazo, and Pildash, and Jidlaph, and Bethuel.
Gen 22:23  And Bethuel begat Rebekah: these eight Milcah did bear to Nahor, Abraham's brother.
Gen 22:24  And his concubine, whose name was Reumah, she bare also Tebah, and Gaham, and Thahash, and Maachah.


a. so you see Abraham was 86 years old when Ishmeal was born.

b. so you see Abraham was 100years old when Isaac was born.

c. This means that Ishmeal was "older than 14 years" when Abraham sent him and his mother away , thus would have also being much older by the time God told Abraham to sacrifise Isaac his only child (not his only adult).

As a matter of fact the bible verses shows that Ishmeal "might" already gotten married to a woman out of the land of egypt , by the time Abraham was about to sacrifise his only son.


----------------------------------------------------

3. God told Abraham to sacrifise isaac and not ishmeal (or any other son for that matter)



Gen 22:2  And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.




, QED

Do you still know that Jesus' family lineage came from incest?

and your point is, !

@Sysuser

and your point is, !

Do you agree to it that his lineage came through the incest had that night?

My rebuttal to your post is on the way

and your Mohamm ed also pratice it, And billions of Musli m also partice it till date marrying there first cousins and step brother

@Sysuser

Because some biblical prophets or people practised polygamy does not mean it was right, also it does not mean the bible says it was right, instead the bible shows us that it is not right and that those people that did that ended creating problems either for themselves for future generations that were yet to be born.

Are you saying that early prophets did wrong thing by marrying more than one wife?
Do we anywhere in the bible it is catgorically stated that you must marry only one and more thn one is a sin?

By the way , MC Usman, babs787, Olabowale etc,  where do you think the deep hatred from Arabs (and other gullible great ones) towards Jews and Christians comes from (apart from the spiritual hatred by the devil transmitted through them).

Clarify yourelf please and back your allegation with proof?

It comes from the polygamy problem created between the descendants of "Ishmeal, Esau and Jacob and children of Keturah", hence why its funny that some of you m.u.s.lim.s who are determined to die for alllah against, Christians and Jews , obviously don't even understand the reason for the deep rooted hatred towards Christians and Jews,

Did you read one of my posts here where sons of slave girls became leaders in Israel? Do you need me to serve you again and you will read that some of the twelve sons of Israel are from slave girls (polygamy)

Its is painful for any Ishmealite (of which i believe Arabs are one) or Edomite to accept that Isrealites are the chosen people and the Isaac was the promised child (to be born to Abraham via his wife Sarah), Despite that Ishmeal was already an adult, at that time.

I thought tht you are knowledgeable in that aspect but remembered that you learnt about Islam here.Let us briefly talk on the promised son;

God said to Abraham:

Genesis 22 v 16; I promise that I will give you as many descendants as there are stars in the sky or grains of sand along the seashore.

One has only to see that the first born son of Abraham, Ishmael; born from Hagar the Egyptian princess and being the father of the Arab Semitic Peoples, truly reflects the fulfillment of this promise.

The seed of Abraham through his first born son Ishmael has indeed multiplied.

On the other hand, the Jews(the Sephardim Jews, not the pseudo Ashkenazim Jews of Europe) or Sephardic Semites have not multiplied in the same way as the Arabs have.

The Holy Qur’an clearly states that the son of Abraham that was to be sacrificed was Ishmael and not Isaac as is stated in the OT.

Although the name of Isaac appears in the text of the Bible as the “Sacrificial” child, the Torah, in actuality, confirms that Ishmael was indeed the “Sacrificial” child, if not by name, then by fact.

In the story of the 'Sacrifice', found in Genesis 22:2,

God says to Abraham “…Take now thy son, thine only son…”.

This statement in fact confirms that Ishmael was to be the child sacrificed. At no time was Isaac ever the only son of Abraham, whereas Ishmael was Abraham’s only son for 14 years, so Isaac could not possibly be the child referred to as “thine only son” found in that verse.

Ishmael was 13 years of age when he was circumcised, one year before the birth of Isaac. This fact can be proven with the OT in Genesis 17:1-27.

The funniest thing is that , God still blessed Ishmeal (because he was Abraham's son) despite Ishmeal not being the promised child,

Gen 21:13  And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed.

Can you supply biblical proof to show that Isaac happened to be the promise and only child?

Do you m.us.lims even notice the fact that your lies about Ishmeal being the promised child, is exposed by the following:

1. Abraham was about to sacrifise his "promised child" (not ishmeal who is probably already an adult by then) before God stopped him.



Gen 16:15  And Hagar bare Abram a son: and Abram called his son's name, which Hagar bare, Ishmael.
Gen 16:16  And Abram was fourscore and six years old, when Hagar bare Ishmael to Abram.

Gen 21:5  And Abraham was an hundred years old, when his son Isaac was born unto him.

Gen 21:17  And God heard the voice of the lad; and the angel of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said unto her, What aileth thee, Hagar? fear not; for God hath heard the voice of the lad where he is.
Gen 21:18  Arise, lift up the lad, and hold him in thine hand; for I will make him a great nation.
Gen 21:19  And God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water; and she went, and filled the bottle with water, and gave the lad drink.
Gen 21:20  And God was with the lad; and he grew, and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer.

Gen 21:21  And he dwelt in the wilderness of Paran: and his mother took him a wife out of the land of Egypt.




--------------------------------------------------------------

2. Abraham had already sent away Ishmeal and his mother "Hagar" away,, even before the occurence of the situation in which he was told to sacrifised his "promised child" ,



Gen 21:9  And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking.
Gen 21:10  Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac.
Gen 21:11  And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of his son.
Gen 21:12  And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Gen 21:13  And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed.
Gen 21:14  And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread, and a bottle of water, and gave it unto Hagar, putting it on her shoulder, and the child, and sent her away: and she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beersheba.
Gen 21:15  And the water was spent in the bottle, and she cast the child under one of the shrubs.
Gen 21:16  And she went, and sat her down over against him a good way off, as it were a bowshot: for she said, Let me not see the death of the child. And she sat over against him, and lift up her voice, and wept.
Gen 21:17  And God heard the voice of the lad; and the angel of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said unto her, What aileth thee, Hagar? fear not; for God hath heard the voice of the lad where he is.
Gen 21:18  Arise, lift up the lad, and hold him in thine hand; for I will make him a great nation.
Gen 21:19  And God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water; and she went, and filled the bottle with water, and gave the lad drink.
Gen 21:20  And God was with the lad; and he grew, and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer.
Gen 21:21  And he dwelt in the wilderness of Paran: and his mother took him a wife out of the land of Egypt.


Gen 22:1  And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.
Gen 22:2  And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.
Gen 22:3  And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ass, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him.
Gen 22:4  Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off.
Gen 22:5  And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you.
Gen 22:6  And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it upon Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together.
Gen 22:7  And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?
Gen 22:8  And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
Gen 22:9  And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood.
Gen 22:10  And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.
Gen 22:11  And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
Gen 22:12  And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.
Gen 22:13  And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.
Gen 22:14  And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.
Gen 22:15  And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
Gen 22:16  And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
Gen 22:17  That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
Gen 22:18  And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.
Gen 22:19  So Abraham returned unto his young men, and they rose up and went together to Beersheba; and Abraham dwelt at Beersheba.
Gen 22:20  And it came to pass after these things, that it was told Abraham, saying, Behold, Milcah, she hath also born children unto thy brother Nahor;
Gen 22:21  Huz his firstborn, and Buz his brother, and Kemuel the father of Aram,
Gen 22:22  And Chesed, and Hazo, and Pildash, and Jidlaph, and Bethuel.
Gen 22:23  And Bethuel begat Rebekah: these eight Milcah did bear to Nahor, Abraham's brother.
Gen 22:24  And his concubine, whose name was Reumah, she bare also Tebah, and Gaham, and Thahash, and Maachah.


a. so you see Abraham was 86 years old when Ishmeal was born.

b. so you see Abraham was 100years old when Isaac was born.

c. This means that Ishmeal was "older than 14 years" when Abraham sent him and his mother away , thus would have also being much older by the time God told Abraham to sacrifise Isaac his only child (not his only adult).

As a matter of fact the bible verses shows that Ishmeal "might" already gotten married to a woman out of the land of egypt , by the time Abraham was about to sacrifise his only son.


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3. God told Abraham to sacrifise isaac and not ishmeal (or any other son for that matter)


Gen 22:2  And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

We learnt that Ishmael never lost his status as a son:

Genesis 25:9 Then his sons Isaac and Ishmael, buried him (Abraham) in the cave of Machpelah.


From your quote:

so you see Abraham was 86 years old when Ishmeal was born.

b. so you see Abraham was 100years old when Isaac was born.

c. This means that Ishmeal was "older than 14 years" when Abraham sent him and his mother away , thus would have also being much older by the time God told Abraham to sacrifise Isaac his only child (not his only adult).

So if Abraham was 86 years when Ishmael was born and Ishmael was 14 years old (Isaac wasnt born then),

Who did God refer to as the only son considering the fact that Isaac wasnt born and Ishmael is referred to as Abraham's son in the verse :

Genesis 25:9 Then his sons Isaac and Ishmael, buried him (Abraham) in the cave of Machpelah.

Read 1 Corinthians chapter 7

"to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife (not wives) and let every woman have her own husband."

vs3 "let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband:

Yes, any prophets or man marrying more than one wife.

1. commits sin of adultery

2. God is no respecter of any man (whether prophet or non-prophet):



Act 10:34  Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: