babs787:

God said to Abraham:

Genesis 22 v 16; I promise that I will give you as many descendants as there are stars in the sky or grains of sand along the seashore.

One has only to see that the first born son of Abraham, Ishmael; born from Hagar the Egyptian princess and being the father of the Arab Semitic Peoples, truly reflects the fulfillment of this promise.

The seed of Abraham through his first born son Ishmael has indeed multiplied.

On the other hand, the Jews(the Sephardim Jews, not the pseudo Ashkenazim Jews of Europe) or Sephardic Semites have not multiplied in the same way as the Arabs have.

The prophecy was indeed fulfilled in Abraham through Ishmael (who also got a similar promise when he was sent away by Abraham) and Isaac. That the jews are not as many as the arabs does not make the jewish aspect of the prophecy a failure. 1 man to millions is still a multiplication.

babs787:

The Holy Qur’an clearly states that the son of Abraham that was to be sacrificed was Ishmael and not Isaac as is stated in the OT.

we will see later that the qur'an is simply confused.

babs787:

Although the name of Isaac appears in the text of the Bible as the “Sacrificial” child, the Torah, in actuality, confirms that Ishmael was indeed the “Sacrificial” child, if not by name, then by fact.

The torah said no such thing.

babs787:

In the story of the 'Sacrifice', found in Genesis 22:2,

God says to Abraham “…Take now thy son, thine only son…”.

This statement in fact confirms that Ishmael was to be the child sacrificed. At no time was Isaac ever the only son of Abraham, whereas Ishmael was Abraham’s only son for 14 years, so Isaac could not possibly be the child referred to as “thine only son” found in that verse.

That statement confirms nothing but your own duplicity . . . Ishmael was driven out in the previous chapter Genesis 21 . . . so how could he have been he "son" refered to in Genesis 22? As at Gen 22, Isaac was the only son of Abraham still dwelling with his father so which son was God refering to? The one that had long departed into the desert with his mother?

Isnt it funny that this story of the "sacrifice" cant be found in the qur'an?

What is even more puzzling is WHY if Ishmael was the child of promise and the son of sacrifice in Gen 22 did al'ah then choose to completely ignore his lineage for 3000yrs . . . choosiing ALL his "prophets" from the lineage of the unworthy Isaac?
Was al'ah having a brain freeze?

babs787:

Ishmael was 13 years of age when he was circumcised, one year before the birth of Isaac. This fact can be proven with the OT in Genesis 17:1-27.

This has never been in doubt . . . it is clearly recorded in the bible but shockingly NO details of such is given in the qur'an, clearly proven by your over-reliance on the bible to prove ur fraud.

babs787:

We learnt that Ishmael never lost his status as a son:

Genesis 25:9 Then his sons Isaac and Ishmael, buried him (Abraham) in the cave of Machpelah.

Ishmael was never disowned by his father.

babs787:

From your quote:


So if Abraham was 86 years when Ishmael was born and Ishmael was 14 years old (Isaac wasnt born then),

Who did God refer to as the only son considering the fact that Isaac wasnt born and Ishmael is referred to as Abraham's son in the verse :

We've already proven that Isaac was born as recorded in Gen 21, we've also shown that Ishmael had been driven out in Gen 21. Between gen 21 and 22 lies a gap of a few yrs by which Isaac had already become an older boy (old enough to carry wood in Gen 22) . . . by which time Ishmael must have long established himself in a foreign land . . . i then put the question back to you . . . which son was God refering to in Gen 22? Isaac or Ishmael who was not available?

@Flower 212 & Sysuser

@Flower212

Read 1 Corinthians chapter 7

"to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife (not wives) and let every woman have her own husband."

vs3 "let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband:

Where is it stated that marrying more than one is a sin and shouldnt be done?



@Sysuser

Yes, any prophets or man marrying more than one wife.

1. commits sin of adultery

Where is it stated in the bible?

2. God is no respecter of any man (whether prophet or non-prophet):

Act 10:34  Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

Where is it stated that YOU MUST NOT MARRY MORE THAN ONE WIFE AND IT IS A SIN IF YOU DO SO?

Babs onnce again u are mis quoting the Bible. Before Abraham was to offer Issac to God he had alread cast Ha-gar ad her son,
Genesis 22 1 -2

And it came to pass after these things that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto to him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.

2. And he said 'Take now thy son, thine only son Issac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Mo-ri-ah: and offer him there for a blunt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

Read the new testatment i know you Mus lim are not allowed but read it and it will show you

(1.2) Mar 10:2-12 - (See also Matthew 19:3-9, Mat 5:32, Luke 16.18.)

2 Some Phar isees came to him and tried to trap him. "Tell us," they asked, "does our Law allow a man to divorce his wife?" 3 Jes us answered with a question, "What law did Mo ses give you?" 4 Their answer was, "Mose s gave permission for a man to write a divorce notice and send his wife away." 5 Jes us said to them, "Mos es wrote this law for you because you are so hard to teach. 6 But in the beginning, at the time of creation, 'God made them male and female,' as the scripture says. 7 'And for this reason a man will leave his father and mother and unite with his wife, 8 and the two will become one.' So they are no longer two, but one. 9 Man must not separate, then, what God has joined together." 10 When they went back into the house, the disciples asked Jesus about this matter. 11 He said to them, "A man who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against his wife. 12 In the same way, a woman who divorces her husband and marries another man commits adultery."

@4him

That statement confirms nothing but your own duplicity . . . Ishmael was driven out in the previous chapter Genesis 21 . . . so how could he have been he "son" refered to in Genesis 22? As at Gen 22, Isaac was the only son of Abraham still dwelling with his father so which son was God refering to? The one that had long departed into the desert with his mother?

Isnt it funny that this story of the "sacrifice" can't be found in the qur'an?

It keeps getting interesting. Let us see the real duplicity.

If the promised son is Isaac, why did God say your 'only son' considering the fact that Ishmael too was Abraham's son?

If he was driven out during that incident, how come did witness his father's burial having been sent away? Cant you see that the bible is dubious?

What is even more puzzling is WHY if Ishmael was the child of promise and the son of sacrifice in Gen 22 did al'ah then choose to completely ignore his lineage for 3000yrs . . . choosiing ALL his "prophets" from the lineage of the unworthy Isaac?
Was al'ah having a brain freeze?

Why are you trying to deflect when you havent even been able to justify the one at hand.

If God is referring to Isaac as the only son, wh did he say 'your only son'?

This has never been in doubt . . . it is clearly recorded in the bible but shockingly NO details of such is given in the qur'an, clearly proven by your over-reliance on the bible to prove your fraud.

Good, you accept that he was 14 years older than Isaac. So how come Isaac happened to be the only son?

Ishmael was never disowned by his father.

It butresses my point that he is the son to be sacrificed then? If he could still be Abraham's son, it means Isaac wasnt born during that incident and bible writers tried smuggling in Isaac.

We've already proven that Isaac was born as recorded in Gen 21, we've also shown that Ishmael had been driven out in Gen 21. Between gen 21 and 22 lies a gap of a few years by which Isaac had already become an older boy (old enough to carry wood in Gen 22) . . . by which time Ishmael must have long established himself in a foreign land . . . i then put the question back to you . . . which son was God refering to in Gen 22? Isaac or Ishmael who was not available?

If he was not available, how did he witness his father's burial and is there any biblical proof to show that he wasnt around during that incident?

Can you tell me the real age of Abraham when the incident happened?

@Flower212



I have read the bible before you were born and still reading it. I even have versions at home if you care to know. You biblical knowledge is very limited to mine

Babs onnce again u are mis quoting the Bible. Before Abraham was to offer Issac to God he had alread cast Ha-gar ad her son,
Genesis 22 1 -2

And it came to pass after these things that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto to him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.

2. And he said 'Take now thy son, thine only son Issac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Mo-ri-ah: and offer him there for a blunt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

Do we have biblical proof showing that Ishmael wasnt around during the incident
The age of Abraham during that incident
The age of Isaac during that incident

Thanks

@Flower212

(1.2) Mar 10:2-12 - (See also Matthew 19:3-9, Mat 5:32, Luke 16.18.)

2 Some Phar isees came to him and tried to trap him. "Tell us," they asked, "does our Law allow a man to divorce his wife?" 3 Jes us answered with a question, "What law did Mo ses give you?" 4 Their answer was, "Mose s gave permission for a man to write a divorce notice and send his wife away." 5 Jes us said to them, "Mos es wrote this law for you because you are so hard to teach. 6 But in the beginning, at the time of creation, 'God made them male and female,' as the scripture says. 7 'And for this reason a man will leave his father and mother and unite with his wife, 8 and the two will become one.' So they are no longer two, but one. 9 Man must not separate, then, what God has joined together." 10 When they went back into the house, the disciples asked Jesus about this matter. 11 He said to them, "A man who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against his wife. 12 In the same way, a woman who divorces her husband and marries another man commits adultery."

The verses above did not say you MUST NOT MARRY MORE THAN ONE WIFE

1. LET ME HAVE WHERE IT IS STATED THAT YOU MUST NOT MARRY MORE THAN ONE
2. WHERE IT IS REGARDED AS A SIN TO MARRY MORE THAN ONE?

babs787:

If the promised son is Isaac, why did God say your 'only son' considering the fact that Ishmael too was Abraham's son?

As at Gen 22, Isaac was the ONLY son living with his father.

babs787:

If he was driven out during that incident, how come did witness his father's burial having been sent away? Cant you see that the bible is dubious?

No, the only person dubious here is you. This ur analogy makes no sense . . . so if you lived in Japan and your father died (God forbid) you'd refuse to come and bury him because Japan is too far?

babs787:

If God is referring to Isaac as the only son, wh did he say 'your only son'?

This question is appearing twice . . . its a sign of ur own confusion.
As at Gen 22 Ishmael had long departed with his mother and several yrs had passed.

babs787:

Good, you accept that he was 14 years older than Isaac. So how come Isaac happened to be the only son?

No one has ever told you that Isaac was the only son of his father.

babs787:

It butresses my point that he is the son to be sacrificed then? If he could still be Abraham's son, it means Isaac wasnt born during that incident and bible writers tried smuggling in Isaac.

Nonsense . . . Isaac was already born in Gen 21. Did the bible writers smuggle his birth into the book of Genesis too?

Look at this: Gen 17: (20) "As for Ishmael, I have heard you; behold, I will bless him, and will make him fruitful and will multiply him exceedingly. He shall become the father of twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation. (21) "But My covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah will bear to you at this season next year." (22) When He finished talking with him, God went up from Abraham.

It cant get any clearer than that except of course to a mus'lim decieved.

babs787:

If he was not available, how did he witness his father's burial and is there any biblical proof to show that he wasnt around during that incident?

You've asked this question a second time in one post . . . a sign that you are thoroughly at sea and grasping for straws here.
The bible clearly says that Ishmael came to bury his father and YOU fraud have already quoted it so what other "proof" are you asking for?
That Ishmael came to bury his father does not prove that he was the one being refered to in Gen 22 . . . to attempt to link both is to try to pull the wool over our eyes.

babs787:

Can you tell me the real age of Abraham when the incident happened?

What is the purpose of this? Did the qur'an even give any ages at all either of abraham or ishmael the alleged child of promise? Havent you stolen all the facts you scream about from the bible?

I ask a relevant question u are struggling to pretend not to see . . .

[size=14pt]If Ishmael was the son of promise . . . why did all'ah ignore him for 3000 yrs? Why were ALL the qur'anic "prophets" from the lineage of the lowly and unworthy Isaac?[/size]

vs 8 and Jes us that the TWO WILL BECOME ONE and like i said read in Corth and it clearly states this

babs787:

@Sysuser





Are you saying that early prophets did wrong thing by marrying more than one wife?
Do we anywhere in the bible it is catgorically stated that you must marry only one and more thn one is a sin?




Clarify yourelf please and back your allegation with proof?





Did you read one of my posts here where sons of slave girls became leaders in Israel? Do you need me to serve you again and you will read that some of the twelve sons of Israel are from slave girls (polygamy)




I thought that you are knowledgeable in that aspect but remembered that you learnt about The Great Religion here.Let us briefly talk on the promised son;

God said to Abraham:

Genesis 22 v 16; I promise that I will give you as many descendants as there are stars in the sky or grains of sand along the seashore.

One has only to see that the first born son of Abraham, Ishmael; born from Hagar the Egyptian princess and being the father of the Arab Semitic Peoples, truly reflects the fulfillment of this promise.

The seed of Abraham through his first born son Ishmael has indeed multiplied.

On the other hand, the Jews(the Sephardim Jews, not the pseudo Ashkenazim Jews of Europe) or Sephardic Semites have not multiplied in the same way as the Arabs have.

The Holy Qur’an clearly states that the son of Abraham that was to be sacrificed was Ishmael and not Isaac as is stated in the OT.

Although the name of Isaac appears in the text of the Bible as the “Sacrificial” child, the Torah, in actuality, confirms that Ishmael was indeed the “Sacrificial” child, if not by name, then by fact.

In the story of the 'Sacrifice', found in Genesis 22:2,

God says to Abraham “…Take now thy son, thine only son…”.

This statement in fact confirms that Ishmael was to be the child sacrificed. At no time was Isaac ever the only son of Abraham, whereas Ishmael was Abraham’s only son for 14 years, so Isaac could not possibly be the child referred to as “thine only son” found in that verse.

Ishmael was 13 years of age when he was circumcised, one year before the birth of Isaac. This fact can be proven with the OT in Genesis 17:1-27.



Can you supply biblical proof to show that Isaac happened to be the promise and only child?






We learnt that Ishmael never lost his status as a son:

Genesis 25:9 Then his sons Isaac and Ishmael, buried him (Abraham) in the cave of Machpelah.


From your quote:


So if Abraham was 86 years when Ishmael was born and Ishmael was 14 years old (Isaac wasnt born then),

Who did God refer to as the only son considering the fact that Isaac wasnt born and Ishmael is referred to as Abraham's son in the verse :

Genesis 25:9 Then his sons Isaac and Ishmael, buried him (Abraham) in the cave of Machpelah.  

@babs787, i have been experiencing your lies and dogmatism , now is the time that i realise that you are really capable of completely telling a lie so long as it is for the benefit of alllah.

Its either that you don't understand simple mathematics or you are complete lying through every single orifice in your body, for you to have seen the bible verses i quoted and then still come around to say the things that you are saying.

You were obviously being very "devilishly smart", when you tried to quote the bible by just quoting a portion of the concerned verses in a way that it would look like you were quoting the bible correctly.

You said that[b], God says to Abraham “…Take now thy son, thine only son…”[/b].

Let me kindly quote you the full verse for your benefit and the benefit of other readers who you might be deceiving, since it is obvious you have likewise edited out the name of isaac from the bible verse you are quoting just like mohammmed and his followers edited out the name of isaac and replaced it with the name of ishmeal


Gen 22:1  And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.
Gen 22:2  And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.


I hope those verses above clearly tells you that GOD clearly told Abraham to sacrifise his only son Isaac.,

Also since it seems that you don't understanding the use of the word "only" that was used in the verses quoted above, I will try to explain to you.

First and foremost let us read the bible verses around that time:


Gen 21:9  And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking.
Gen 21:10  Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac.
Gen 21:11  And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of his son.
Gen 21:12  And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Gen 21:13  And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed.
Gen 21:14  And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread, and a bottle of water, and gave it unto Hagar, putting it on her shoulder, and the child, and sent her away: and she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beersheba.
Gen 21:15  And the water was spent in the bottle, and she cast the child under one of the shrubs.
Gen 21:16  And she went, and sat her down over against him a good way off, as it were a bowshot: for she said, Let me not see the death of the child. And she sat over against him, and lift up her voice, and wept.
Gen 21:17  And God heard the voice of the lad; and the angel of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said unto her, What aileth thee, Hagar? fear not; for God hath heard the voice of the lad where he is.
Gen 21:18  Arise, lift up the lad, and hold him in thine hand; for I will make him a great nation.
Gen 21:19  And God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water; and she went, and filled the bottle with water, and gave the lad drink.
Gen 21:20  And God was with the lad; and he grew, and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer.
Gen 21:21  And he dwelt in the wilderness of Paran: and his mother took him a wife out of the land of Egypt.


Gen 22:1  And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.
Gen 22:2  And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.
Gen 22:3  And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ass, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him.
Gen 22:4  Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off.
Gen 22:5  And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you.
Gen 22:6  And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it upon Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together.
Gen 22:7  And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?
Gen 22:8  And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
Gen 22:9  And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood.
Gen 22:10  And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.
Gen 22:11  And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
Gen 22:12  And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.
Gen 22:13  And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.
Gen 22:14  And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.
Gen 22:15  And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
Gen 22:16  And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
Gen 22:17  That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
Gen 22:18  And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.
Gen 22:19  So Abraham returned unto his young men, and they rose up and went together to Beersheba; and Abraham dwelt at Beersheba.
Gen 22:20  And it came to pass after these things, that it was told Abraham, saying, Behold, Milcah, she hath also born children unto thy brother Nahor;
Gen 22:21  Huz his firstborn, and Buz his brother, and Kemuel the father of Aram,
Gen 22:22  And Chesed, and Hazo, and Pildash, and Jidlaph, and Bethuel.
Gen 22:23  And Bethuel begat Rebekah: these eight Milcah did bear to Nahor, Abraham's brother.
Gen 22:24  And his concubine, whose name was Reumah, she bare also Tebah, and Gaham, and Thahash, and Maachah.


You will notice that at that point in time (when Isaac was already old enough to talk) and when Abraham had already sent Ishmeal (and his mother) away, there was no other son (except Isaac) with Abraham at that point in time, hence just like that bible says, Isaac was "truthfully the only remaining son" to Abraham at that particular place and time.

Also before i go further let us again consider the following bible verses that it seems you have ignored.


Gen 16:15  And Hagar bare Abram a son: and Abram called his son's name, which Hagar bare, Ishmael.
Gen 16:16  And Abram was fourscore and six years old, when Hagar bare Ishmael to Abram.

Gen 17:19  And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.
Gen 17:20  And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
Gen 17:21  But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.


Gen 21:5  And Abraham was an hundred years old, when his son Isaac was born unto him.

Gen 21:17  And God heard the voice of the lad; and the angel of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said unto her, What aileth thee, Hagar? fear not; for God hath heard the voice of the lad where he is.
Gen 21:18  Arise, lift up the lad, and hold him in thine hand; for I will make him a great nation.
Gen 21:19  And God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water; and she went, and filled the bottle with water, and gave the lad drink.
Gen 21:20  And God was with the lad; and he grew, and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer.

Gen 21:21  And he dwelt in the wilderness of Paran: and his mother took him a wife out of the land of Egypt.


The bible clearly shows that:


1. Abraham was 86 years when Ishmeal was born

2. Abraham was 100 years when Isaac was born

3. Abraham had "two sons" when he was around 100 years after the birth of Isaac

4. Abraham "was already more than" 100 years old when he tried to sacrifise his "promised child"

5. Abraham had only "one" son with him when he wanted to sacrifise his promise child, because he had already sent away Ishmeal.

6. Isaac (to be given birth to via Sarah) was the promised child (covenant child) and not ishmeal. (ishmeal was not the covenant child)


---------------------------------------------
By the way:


1. I did not tell you that Ishmeal was not 13 years old when Isaac circumcised him.
2. I did not tell you that Ishmeal was not circumscised a year before the birth of isaac.



So how that has anything to do with what i am saying and why you have decided to bring up a completely unrelated issue is disconcerting.
.

How you can then turn around to say what you are saying is completely astounding, GOD!!!!!!!! , ITS SEEMS THAT YOU PEOPLE ARE REALLY TRUE SONS OF YOUR FATHER THE DEVIL, WHO IS THE FATHER OF LIES, that you people are willingly using.

How can a truthful person see what all that i have just said and then still imply something else completely different from what my statements imply is really , certainly a work of the father of lies!



Also I never told you that Ishmeal lost his status as a son , that was why the bible was "Truthful" when the bible says that:

a. Ishmeal was blessed because he was Abraham's seed (meaning that the bible recognises and states the fact that Ishmeal was Abraham's son), although the bible clearly also states the fact that he was not the promise child


Gen 25:9  And his sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah, in the field of Ephron the son of Zohar the Hittite, which is before Mamre;



b. I did not say Isaac was the only son of Abraham

what i said was that Isaac was the promised child of Abraham as shown in the verses below:



Gen 17:15  And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be.
Gen 17:16  And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.
Gen 17:17  Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear?
Gen 17:18  And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee!
Gen 17:19  And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.
Gen 17:20  And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
Gen 17:21  But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.
Gen 17:22  And he left off talking with him, and God went up from Abraham.


Gen 21:1  And the LORD visited Sarah as he had said, and the LORD did unto Sarah as he had spoken.
Gen 21:2  For Sarah conceived, and bare Abraham a son in his old age, at the set time of which God had spoken to him.
Gen 21:3  And Abraham called the name of his son that was born unto him, whom Sarah bare to him, Isaac.
Gen 21:4  And Abraham circumcised his son Isaac being eight days old, as God had commanded him.
Gen 21:5  And Abraham was an hundred years old, when his son Isaac was born unto him.




Also I am astounded that you did not see the "biblical proof" that i have already provided to you in the verses that you quote (maybe you didn't read those verses at all or you just simply ignored them)


ABEG , take it easy with all these your lying,

Qur'an 37: 100. "O my Lord! Grant me a righteous (son)!"
101. So We gave him the good news of a forbearing son.
102. Then, when (the son) reached (the age of) (serious) work with him, he said: "O my son! I have seen in a vision that I offer thee in sacrifice: now see what is thy view!" (The son) said: "O my father! Do as thou art commanded: thou will find me, if Allah so wills, one of the steadfast!"
103. So when they had both submitted (to Allah), and he had laid him prostrate on his forehead (for sacrifice),
104. We called out to him "O Abraham! ,
105. "Thou hast already fulfilled the vision!" - thus indeed do We reward those who do right.
106. For this was a clear trial-
107. And We ransomed him with a momentous sacrifice:
108. And We left for him among generations (to come) in later times:
109. "Peace and salutation to Abraham!"
110. Thus indeed do We reward those who do right.
111. For he was one of Our believing Servants.
112. And We gave him the good news of Isaac - a prophet,- one of the Righteous.
113. We blessed him and Isaac: but of their progeny are (some) that do right, and (some) that obviously do wrong, to themselves.

Here is the problem with the qur'anic description of the sacrifice . . . Ishmael is not mentioned ONCE! Did al'lah also forget him or was his name smuggled out by christian writers?

Brings me back to my earlier question: [size=14pt]If Ishmael was the true heir, why did God neglect his children for approximately 2600 years? How could God possibly be faithful to Abraham if this was the case? Why did all the prophets (except for Muhammad) come from the line of Isaac?[/size]

1. I did not tell you that Ishmeal was not 13 years old when Isaac circumcised him

I want to correct my statement quoted above which wrongly said that isaac circumscised ishmeal, rather it should have been written as:

1. I did not tell you that Ishmeal was not 13 years old when Abraham circumcised him

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Secondly 4Him good work , I am suprised to know that even the great plagiarised book called q'uran did not mention Ishmeal in relation to the sacrifise Abraham might have done,

Makes one to wonder WHY and WHERE m.u.s.l.i.m.s keep denying , twisting and changing the fact that Isaac was the promised child and that Isaac was the "only" son of Abraham that God told him to sacrifise,

babs787, do you even realise that according to the bible verses that have been quoted above, its very safe to state that Ishmeal was even already married to an egyptian by the time God was telling Abraham to sacrifise Isaac.. So how come you are now still dogmatically insisting that Ishmeal was the one to be sacrifised when all evidences shows that the oppposite was true,

You people really get as it be,

------------------------------------------

This guy babs787 is really an enigma, in terms of the "Straight faced lying" that he is doing, considering that I (Sysuser) and 4Him have already shown that Ishmeal had already being sent away before God told Abraham to sacrifise his "only" son, considering that:

1. it has already being shown that Abraham only had one son living with him, during the time that God told him to sacrifise his only son.

2. it has also already being shown that the bible clearly states that Isaac was the covenant child (promised child),


Men!!!!, the devil has really done a very good job at deceiving the people , for them to so boldly be lying through every orifice of their body,

@7 Flower 212

Read 1 Corinthians chapter 7
"to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife (not wives) and let every woman have her own husband."
vs3 "let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband



Why use the old testament when you initially requested fact from the new test.

The verse did not any humanly language Cleary state that polygamy is a sin.
Polygamy is a sin in Christianity today because the west culture and tradition does not support it. And I am telling in the next 3 -4 generation to come gay marriage & same sex marrauge would have been incorporated into Christendom.

MC Usman:

Why use the old testament when you initially requested fact from the new test.

Maybe you need glasses, corinthians is from the new testament after the book of Romans.

MC Usman:

The verse did not any humanly language Cleary state that polygamy is a sin.

That is being economical with the truth.

MC Usman:

Polygamy is a sin in Christianity today because the west culture and tradition does not support it.

No, it is a sin because the bible expressly says so.

MC Usman:

And I am telling in the next 3 -4 generation to come gay marriage & same sex marrauge would have been incorporated into Christendom.

Impossible. The bible in the book of corinthians clearly condemns same sex marriage.

The verse did not any humanly language Cleary state that polygamy is a sin.
Polygamy is a sin in Christianity today because the west culture and tradition does not support it. And I am telling in the next 3 -4 generation to come gay marriage & same sex marrauge would have been incorporated into Christendom.

And I am telling in the next 3 -4 generation to come gay marriage & same sex marrauge would have been incorporated into Christendom.

Typical Tactics of , "if you can't beat them, smear them, !!!!"


, Na wa o, !!!!!!

Why must you people do everything possible to protect the obvious sin of polygamy

Maybe because mohammmed practised it, hence saying it is a sin means you are admitting that mohammmed was likewise a adulterous sinner (out of his many sins)
Just like a lot of i.s.l.ami.c people also practise peadophilia today, cus mohammmed also was a peadophile

SysUser:


Just like a lot of i.s.l.ami.c people also practise peadophilia today, cus mohammmed also was a peadophile

when will you stop?

how are you so sure?

what proofs do u have?
ur fanaticism is taking a whole new level . help yourself before it gets too late

I apologise for saying a lot of i.s.l.a.mic people practise peadophilia, that was an being exhagirated

I hereby rewrite the statement by saying that: at least a significant few numbers of i.s.l.a.mic people practise underage marriage (rampantly evidence with a few northerners in nigeria), as earlier done by their great false prophet mohammmed with AISHA

@4Him

Brings me back to my earlier question: If Ishmael was the true heir, why did God neglect his children for approximately 2600 years? How could God possibly be faithful to Abraham if this was the case?

I can't answer your question its beyond my knowledge to Question Almighty God, but I see the progress of SAUDI ARABIA THEY'RE BLESSED BY THIS NATURAL OIL. mybe the Arab people are decendant of Ismael.

Why did all the prophets (except for The Great Prophet) come from the line of Isaac?
well, its beyond my capacity to question God, maybe one of the best example they disregard the teaching of Jesus(as) and rejected as a prophet.

samba123:

@4Him
I can't answer your question its beyond my knowledge to Question Almighty God

good, dont let me see you hypocrite coming here to ask about biblical "contradictions" EVER AGAIN if you cant even answer the simplest question about ur own fraud of a book.

samba123:

but I see the progress of SAUDI ARABIA THEY'RE BLESSED BY THIS NATURAL OIL. mybe the Arab people are decendant of Ismael.

Rubbish. Nigeria is blessed with oil too, are we descendants of Ishmael?

samba123:

Why did all the prophets (except for The Great Prophet) come from the line of Isaac?
well, its beyond my capacity to question God, maybe one of the best example they disregard the teaching of Jesus(as) and rejected as a prophet.

Did the descendants of Ishmael reject the "prophets"? Why did they have not one single prophet for 2600 yrs?

4 him

good, don't let me see you hypocrite coming here to ask about biblical "contradictions" EVER AGAIN if you can't even answer the simplest question about your own fraud of a book.

wow, can you question your God and asked him 2700 year back probe it to me , Liar, you can't question God by our own philosophy, ?

samba123:

4 him
wow, can you question your God and asked him 2700 year back probe it to me , Liar, you can't question God by our own philosophy, ?

Everytime we ask you a simple question you hide behind the fraud about not being able to "question" your idol of a god.
The same people turn around accusing the bible of contradictions without even bothering whether we can ask our own God questions or not.

Bro, this is not a problem of ur god knowing the answers alone . . . it is a big question mark and a peep through the many many lies moh'ammed told in order to sell his religion to gullible people like you.

[size=15pt]If indeed Ishmael was the covenant child of your god . . . why is the qur'an completely silent on him for 2600yrs?[/size]

Could it be because the bible is also silent on him too for exactly that period of time? Why is the qur'an full of the stories of biblical characters from the lineage of Isaac the second son?

4Him:

good, don't let me see you hypocrite coming here to ask about biblical "contradictions" EVER AGAIN if you can't even answer the simplest question about your own fraud of a book.

Rubbish. Nigeria is blessed with oil too, are we descendants of Ishmael?

Did the descendants of Ishmael reject the "prophets"? Why did they have not one single prophet for 2600 years?

Patent Rubbish. No evidence of Ishamael and a large scale migration from Middle East to Tropical Africa. On the other hand there is genetic evidence that humans migrated from sub-saharan Africa and Southern Africa to populate the earth.

tpaine:

Patent Rubbish. No evidence of Ishamael and a large scale migration from Middle East to Tropical Africa. On the other hand there is genetic evidence that humans migrated from sub-saharan Africa and Southern Africa to populate the earth.

you're pretence at scholarship is pathetic. Did you know that Arabs are the direct descendants of Ishmael?
Go study about the arab invasion of north africa . . . and while u're at it please look into the ethnicity of the ancient Egyptians. I'm sure history, hieroglyphics and anthropological evidence will show you they were in no way caucasoid but nubian.

4Him:

you're pretence at scholarship is pathetic. Did you know that Arabs are the direct descendants of Ishmael?
Go study about the arab invasion of north africa . . . and while u're at it please look into the ethnicity of the ancient Egyptians. I'm sure history, hieroglyphics and anthropological evidence will show you they were in no way caucasoid but nubian.

Who are Africans the descendants of then?

wow,  can you question your God and asked him 2700 year back probe it to me , Liar,  you can't question God by our own philosophy, ?

I TOLD YOU YOU CAN'T QUESTION GOD!! WHY ARE YOU INSISTING IS THAT A BIG DEAL TO YOU

RESPONSE MY QUESTION CANT YOU QUESTION GOD??

tpaine:

Who are Africans the descendants of then?

The lineage of Noah.

samba123:

I TOLD YOU YOU CAN'T QUESTION GOD!! WHY ARE YOU INSISTING IS THAT A BIG DEAL TO YOU

RESPONSE MY QUESTION CANT YOU QUESTION GOD??

that is the response of one completely unsure of what he claims to believe in.
Perhaps your "god" has a problem with consistency.

Is that what you think, I ask you can you QUESTION YOUR GOD YOU DID NOT EVEN COME NEAR TO MY QUESTION ARE YOU ILLITERATE SIMPLE ENGLISH CAN BE ANSWER

4Him:

The lineage of Noah.

THENFORE NOAH IS A BLACK MAN THAT RIGHT? WHO DO YOU KNOW HE HIS BLACK, DID THE BIBLE SAYS THE COLOR OF NOAH IS BLACK MAN,

samba123:

Is that what you think, I ask you can you QUESTION YOUR GOD YOU DID NOT EVEN COME NEAR TO MY QUESTION ARE YOU ILLITERATE SIMPLE ENGLISH CAN BE ANSWER

My God says i should come and reason with Him. He says to ASK and ye shall recieve.
He didnt leave us confused with regards to such important issues as the covenant between Abraham and Isaac.

samba123:

THENFORE NOAH IS A BLACK MAN THAT RIGHT? WHO DO YOU KNOW HE HIS BLACK, DID THE BIBLE SAYS THE COLOR OF NOAH IS BLACK MAN,

At least our God provided us some clues . . . go and ask al'lah this silly question . . . abi isnt "prophet" Noah/Nuh not one of his "prophets" too?