babyosisi:

When asked why Muslims were cruel to the women folk and are treated as second hand citizens and property in Muslim countries,they say it is an arab culture not Islam(go figure)

Aye, i never knew Hausas and fulanis were also arabs!

When asked why muslims keep a beard they say it is a sexual organ

when asked why muslim women are subjugated and treated as second class citizens they say it is to protect the women

babyosisi:

when asked why he(Mo) asked his followers to marry not more than 4 wives and Mo had multiples of 4 women to himself including captured slave girls,a forumite said,he was helping out the female folk to even out the large female population and olabowole added that it was the fantasy of every man.

Pity. . . hope uncle Olabowale is not "pedo"-ing his underaged daughter (much less his neighbour's, if he himself has no underaged kid).

babyosisi:

when asked why a muslim woman would be stoned to death for adultery and rape and the man set free,bellotti says it's easier to convict women in such cases than men.

At least, belloti was proving himself a true muslim, following the steps of Muhammad who taught exactly that idea! See:

Qur'an 24:6
"And for those who launch a charge against their wives, accusing them, but have no witnesses or evidence, except themselves; let the testimony of one of them be four testimonies, (swearing four times) by Allah that he is the one speaking the truth."

babyosisi:

When asked why Muslims were cruel to the women folk and are treated as second hand citizens and property in Muslim countries,they say it is an arab culture not Islam(go figure)

Tabari VIII:62 Ishaq:496
"Ali [Muhammad's adopted son, son-in-law, and future Caliph] said, ‘Prophet, women are plentiful. You can get a replacement, easily changing one for another.'"

This is Christianity is wrong, but Islam is right?? Well, belloti. . . you're a true Muslim, and we would like you to come to Mo's rescue here!

Shahan, dont you think its easier to notice a sign of adultery on pregnant woman than a signless man? thats my point. However, i noticed the new found vibe that you came here with to bastardise our discussions. you are very much welcome but i advice you tread carefully. We have had the likes of maliki, david, pataki and havila before you and we shall expect more new comers like you to bring in their haphazard knowledge of theology and blend it with the figments of their imaginations in maligning our already acrimoniuos debates here.

However, the question is i feel christianity is wrong and i expect you to correct my apprehension.

@ belloti,
Welcome back, and Happy New Year to you,
Hope you stayed away from the pork meat and ate loads of lizards, snakes, goats, birds, vultures, rats,  and the likes.

Guess thats not wrong in Islam right?

shahan,

Well, if Christianity is wrong because of Who Jesus Christ proved Himself to be (sinless and loving); could Islam be right if we apply the same test to who Muhammad proved himself to be?

SINLESSNESS

If you pay close attention to the rejoinders to your concerns, could you possibly miss the gist that you had no point at all to convey? It would be interesting to read some new concerns of yours, if you have any.

Well, if jesus is sinless, I want you to explain these verses to me.

1. Here, he was accused of stealing in

John 7v8-10: on the feast of the tabernacle, jesus replied his brothers, go to the feast yourselves, I am not going up to the feast and after his brothers were gone, he also went up, not publicly but in private.

2. if jesus had forbidden mere cursing of others and says in his words
Mathew 5v22: but whoever shall say “thou fool” shall be in danger of hell fire.

Then for him to have cursed a fig tree (having forgotten that it wasn’t time to bear fruit) in
Mark 11v13-14: andc seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he (jesus) might find anything thereon, and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves, FOR THE TIME OF FIGS WAS NOT YET. And jesus answered and said unto it, NOMAN EAT FRUIT OF THEE HEREAFTER FOREVER. And his disciples heard it.

Or to have say “you blind fools” in
Mathew 23v17: ye fools and blind, for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctified the gold?

3. the bible also recorded that jesus took baptism from john, the purpose of baptism is for ‘the forgiveness of sin’ as in

Mathew 3 v15: let it be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.

Mark 1v4: john did baptism in the wilderness and preach baptism of repentance for the remission of sin

WHY DID HE TOOK BAPTISM IF HE WAS SINLESS?

4. if jesus is sinless, how come the verse that he who that is born of a woman cannot be clean (roman 3 v10) : how then can man be righteous, no not one, two, everyone as long as he remain someone born of a woman, he is perpetually under irredeemable sin.

Job 25v4: how then can man be righteous before God. How can he who is born of a woman be clean?

LOVING INDEED

Ezekiel 9v5: and the Lord said, ‘go through the city and SMITE, let not your eye spare, neither have you pity. SLAY utterly old and young both maids and little children and women.

Num 31v1-: and the Lord said unto Moses, ‘AVENGE the children of the Midanites…………, as the Lord commanded Moses

Killing women, children, animals.

Ezekiel 9v5: and the Lord said, ‘go through the city and SMITE, let not your eye spare, neither have you pity. SLAY utterly old and young both maids and little children and women.

KILL THEM AND TAKE THEIR PROPERTIES

Deut 20v10: when u draw near to a city to fight against it, offer terms of peace to it. And it its answer to you is peace and opens to you, then all the people who are found in it shall do forced labour for you and shall serve you. But if it makes no peace with you, THEN U SHALL BESIEGE IT, U SHALL PUT ALL THE MALES TO THE SWORD, but the women and the little ones, the cattle and everything else in the city all its spoils, u shall TAKE AS BOOTY FOR YOURSELVES AND U SHALL ENJOY THE SPOIL OF YOUR ENEMIES.

SWORD AND FIRE IN NEW TESTAMENT (ALL THESE WERE SAID BY GOD JESUS)

Luke 12v49: I came to cast fire upon the earth and would that it were already kindled. Do not think I came to make peace but rather DIVISION for from henceforth in one house there will be five divided, three against two, two against three. They will be divided, father against son, son against father, mother against daughter, daughter against mother.

Mathew 10v34: do not think I have come to make peace on earth. I have not come to make peace but a SWORD. For I have come to set man against his father and a daughter against her mother.

babs787:

[b]

Then for him to have cursed a fig tree (having forgotten that it wasn’t time to bear fruit) in
Mark 11v13-14: andc seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he (jesus) might find anything thereon, and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves, FOR THE TIME OF FIGS WAS NOT YET. And jesus answered and said unto it, NOMAN EAT FRUIT OF THEE HEREAFTER FOREVER. And his disciples heard it.

Mark 1v4: john did baptism in the wilderness and preach baptism of repentance for the remission of sin

WHY DID HE TOOK BAPTISM IF HE WAS SINLESS?

4. if jesus is sinless, how come the verse that he who that is born of a woman cannot be clean (roman 3 v10) : how then can man be righteous, no not one, two, everyone as long as he remain someone born of a woman, he is perpetually under irredeemable sin.

Sallam Babs

Just to warn u 2 thread carefully & watch what you say about Jesus (ASW). Don't get dragged into blasphemy -especially on a personality like Jesus- just to proove your point. I don't know if Jesus was sinful sinless (God is the only one that can say that with certainty) but I do know that to every rule their is an exception. Thus Jesus might be exempted from roman 3 v10 (_{is the book of romans part of the original injel or later addition culminating to the bible?}). Remeber he wasn't born like the rest of us.

May God guide us all amin

@gist,

salam my brother, may the guidance, blessing and protecting of Allah (swt) be with u and increase your knowledge (amin).

to the issue of isa (asw) which is called jesus, they r just twisting issues. the questions raised by shahan was off the track of what we have been saying but having known that there is no hiding place for them, he threw a question different from the one we have been iscussing.(is christianity wrong)

jesus was nothing than a prophet, sent to israelite. u know that christians are hypocrites, they can lay their hands on where jesus said, i am here for for sacrifice, kill me and use my blood for atonement.

they claim that jesus of the bible was sinless and i brought out certain verses for them.jesus wasnt the only prophet to be acused of things, most of the prophets of God were accused of adultery, fornication etc and which isnt supposed to be like that.

I DIDNT SAY JESUS WAS SINFUL LIKEWISE MUHAMMED (SAW) BUT I BROUGHT OUT VERSES FROM THE BIBLE FOR THEM TO SEE.

we the entire muslim world believe in jesus (but not as a son, or saviour nor who was crucified) and we accord him respect like every other prophets cos we were told never to make comparism among the prophets, we equally believe in all of them including jesus

and by the way maybe if you christians do not know, muhammed, wasnt the only prophet of islam, so why the fuss, even jesus wasnt a christian and all the prophets before him practised islam. so in a nutshell muhammed (saw) wasnt the originator iof Islam.

@Gist,
Hi, and thanks for your warning message to babs787 above; I have read a couple of your posts in other topics and I guess you are currently a muslim, but most importantly you are humbly interested in seeking wisdom. Please keep it up, as God himself will enrich your heart of understanding. Bless you and have a great year ahead.

Now @babs787,
I really really pity you and your soul; because your ignorance is fuelled by spiritual pride and a dark heart with no knowledge. Are you trying to prove that Jesus is a sinner? Haa! you are on the path to destroying your life and your soul eternally and it will be wicked to leave you without warning.

Listen to what  the Bible as well as your quran says of Jesus Christ:

1 Peter 2:21-22: ",,,,because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth."

1 John 3:5: "And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin."

Jesus Himself said in John 8 :46: "Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?"

In addition, Soskilam has graciously provided quotations from three different translations of the your Quran, probably you've not read that part or you are dyslexic:

[Shakir 19:19] He said: "I am only a messenger of your Lord: That I will give you a pure boy".
[Yusufali 19:19] He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son.
[Pickthal 19:19] He said: I am only a messenger of thy Lord, that I may bestow on thee a faultless son.

In conclusion babs, in Matthew 12:32 Jesus Christ said: "And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."
In your "attempt" to prove that Jesus is a sinner, what you are doing is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost; you are now delibrately rejecting the Christ, His Holy Ghost-empowered sinless life and many miracles. You are not just denying salvation, but now putting yourself outside the reach of the grace and mercy of God. Waoh!!, you must be very very stupid to declare war on "Him who is able to destroy both the body and the Soul in Hell" (Matt 11:28)
No wonder, I was actually wondering why most of your posts are outrightly foolish, now I know why. You need help.

belloti you mentioned you dont kill your neighbours , thats funny you kill them if not then who do the infidels killed during the jihad are? are not them your neighbours?? always check what u r saying ok

The greatest stupidity (in man's eyes) exhibited by Mo and his allah was to steal some Christian texts(albeit) twisted into the Koran.
But God uses everything to his glory for many have been saved by reading the Koran and getting a revelation of the Saviour.

babs you are yet to answer shahans question,stop dodging.
By the way Mohammed was a pedophilic,murderous,thieving womanizer.
He admitted to being a sinful,sinful man so no comparison whatsoever with Christ.

@babs787,

babs787:

to the issue of isa (asw) which is called jesus, they r just twisting issues. the questions raised by shahan was off the track of what we have been saying but having known that there is no hiding place for them, he threw a question different from the one we have been iscussing.(is christianity wrong)

Lol,. . . now that just confirms your struggle with simple English. First, I wasn't the one hiding or "waiting" (remember). Second, because you were scared of your own reading ability, you thought my question was a different one than the topic suggests! In what way??

babs787:

jesus was nothing than a prophet, sent to israelite. u know that christians are hypocrites, they can lay their hands on where jesus said, i am here for for sacrifice, kill me and use my blood for atonement.

Oh child, what a snorter! First, the rascally way in which you assume to quote Jesus' supposed sayings from the Bible is an oscar! Kia-kia, grab a Bible and read it - you can't go wrong when you do.

Now, even your Qur'an affirms that Jesus was more than a prophet indeed. He was called "Christ" (a title that none of the other prophets in Islam was given); He was also called God's Word as well as a Spirit proceeding from God (Q. 4:171). All these are not even remotely hinted at as being titles given to any other Islamic prophet, nor attributed to the much appraised Muhammad.

Not only so, according to the Qur'an, Jesus Christ is to be "held in honour in this world and the Hereafter" (Q. 3:45). One way of thinking about the honour of the hereafter is that He comes to finish and perfect that which no other prophet could accomplish, including Muhammad.

Ask yourself a salient question here: Why is Jesus referred to as 'Christ' (or, "Messiah" even in the Qur'an? Not even Muhammad could deny that title conveyed on Jesus; but what is the meaning behind that title? Regardless of the denials of the Qur'an about the vicarious work of Christ, have you noticed that not even Muhammad was able to face the Dajjal (the "anti[b]christ[/b]"?) This sinister being is not concerned about Muhammad, and that is why he was not called the "anti[b]hammad[/b]" or "anti[b]mu'amad[/b]".

The answer is because Satan's war has never been against Muhammad, but rather against Jesus Christ. The "rasul allah" (as Muhammad is fondly termed) is no speck of trouble to the Dajjal, for the One this enemy fears is actually the Christ. several hadiths testify that Muhammad was indeed terrified of the Dajjal, and concours that only the Christ will be able to pursue and kill this dreadful being (see, for example: Book 40, Number 7023: Narrated Abdullah ibn Amr).

In all these, if Jesus was no more than a "prophet", why was Muhammad, "the rasul allah" so terrified of the Dajjal, but trusted so much that only Christ could vanquish the sinister minister of sin?

babs787:

they claim that jesus of the bible was sinless

We still stand by that claim.

babs787:

and i brought out certain verses for them.

. . . and which one of those verses proved that Jesus was a sinner?

babs787:

jesus wasnt the only prophet to be acused of things, most of the prophets of God were accused of adultery, fornication etc and which isnt supposed to be like that.

Babs787, Muhammad should really be ashamed of you! Not even your prophet with a thousand sins could prove that Jesus committed adultery, fornication, etc. To be sure, look again, and we stand by the claim that Muhammad was a sinner too shameful to be quoted in a public forum. Thing is, not one of you chaps has come to refute that claim.

babs787:

I DIDNT SAY JESUS WAS SINFUL LIKEWISE MUHAMMED (SAW) BUT I BROUGHT OUT VERSES FROM THE BIBLE FOR THEM TO SEE.

You quickly and directly deny the very thing you proclaim indirectly. Sorry for you; English has been a tough one on you.

babs787:

we the entire muslim world believe in jesus (but not as a son, or saviour nor who was crucified) and we accord him respect like every other prophets because we were told never to make comparism among the prophets, we equally believe in all of them including jesus

And which version of "jesus" do you believe in - the cannabis jesus, the kinky jesus whom you insinuated might have been accused of fornication and adultery? No wonder you fellows are scared to investigate matters for yourself - because you don't know beyond 'what you have been told'!

babs787:

and by the way maybe if you christians do not know, muhammed, wasnt the only prophet of islam, so why the fuss,

We know that already - that Muhammad wasn't the only "prophet" of Islam! As he did, so his followers - get it now?? The fuss is that you chaps have the uncanny and frivilous air of Quriash inability to reason!! Open yours eyes - read the Qur'an beyond what you have been told!!

babs787:

even jesus wasnt a christian and all the prophets before him practised islam. so in a nutshell muhammed (saw) wasnt the originator iof Islam.

Oh child! I wish you'd open your eyes and see that even Muhammad wasn't sure of the origins of Islam - and the claim of Jesus practicing Islam (of all things) was a cheap interjection Muhammad sold gullible people who only believe what they have been told. You really don't have a clue about what you're practising.

Jesus was not a Muslim - He was not called "jesus-mus" or "jesus-slam" or "jesus slim": He was called Jesus CHRIST, from whom you get the name "Christians". Haa! na wah!!  

Sorry folks dis a little off topic, I just cant read while my leader is being falsely accused.

babyosisi:


babs you are yet to answer shahans question,stop dodging. By the way Muhammad was a pedophilic,murderous,thieving womanizer.

@babyosisi

First 2 ur false accusation of our beloved prophet (pbuh) of being a pedophilia. I stand to be corrected, my guess is that u brand him that title for his marriage with Aisha, the six year old girl (some hadith has it that she was sixteen and consumation came at nineteen, but lets stick to the one u'r interesting i.e six & consumation at nine). Honestly, (not because I'm a muslim) I don't see how Muhammed qualifies for that title!!! It is said that people suffering from that disorder in many cases are unable to control their sexual urge. If consumation didn't occur until three years after the marriage how then can you call him a pedophilic? Another thing u should have in mind is that he was legally married to her with the concent of both parent of the girl in question.

The DSM-IV (American Psychiatric Association, 1994) defines pedophilia in terms of recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children, and requires that the fantasies, urges, or behaviors cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

http://www.ipt-forensics.com/library/special_problems12.htm


Muhammed was far successful by any standard, a sharp contradiction to the common traits of many with such sextual disorder. The following is an excerpt from a rational non muslim author:

Muhammad, the inspired man who founded Islam, was born about AD. 570 into an Arabian tube that worshipped idols. Orphaned at birth, he was always particularly solicitous of the poor and needy the widow and the orphan, the slave and the downtrodden. At twenty he was already a successful businessman, and soon became director of camel caravans for a wealthy widow. When he reached twenty-five his employer, recognizing his meet, proposed marriage. Even though she was fifteen years older, he married her _{(pedophilics dont marry women 15 years older than them)} and as long as she lived remained a devoted husband. Like almost every major prophet before him, Muhammad fought shy of serving as the transmitter of God's word, sensing his own inadequacy But the angel commanded Read'. So far as we know, Muhammad was unable to read or write, but he began to dictate those inspired words which would soon revolutionize a large segment of the earth: "There is one God." In all things Muhammad was profoundly practical. When his beloved son Ibrahim died, an eclipse occurred, and rumors of God's personal condolence quickly arose. Whereupon Muhammad is said to have announced,' An eclipse is a phenomenon of nature. It is foolish to attribute such things to the death or birth of a human being." At Muhammads own death an attempt was made to deify him, but the man who was to become his administrative successor killed the hysteria with one of the noblest speeches
in religious history: 'If there are any among you who worshipped Muhammad, he is dead. But if it is God you worshipped, He lives forever'.
James A. Michene
"Islam: The Misunderstood Religion,"
Reader's Digest (Amencan ea.) May 1955, pp. 68-70.


Next 2 ur accusation of a murderer. I presume u r trying 2 say Islam was spread by d sword. I'v tried to xplain in some threads the quranic quotes anti-islamist like u use 2 paint us black. Just 2 ask u a simple question, which group of pple did Muhammed fight dt did not first raised sword against him? In mordern day language his actions will be seen as self defence. Malasia and Indonisia are two largely muslim populated countries. Which muslim/Islamic army ever stepped its foot on those countries?

Pls dont let us start all over again on this thread as it will be off post. In any case their are far many more attrocities in the bible. I think its better we don't dig


In ur opinon Muhammed was a thriving womanizer!! Well at least he legally married all of his wife and no 300 concubines. He didn't need to scheme the death of any woman's husband just to sleep with her. Examples are abound in d bible, let's not dig


If greatness of purpose, smallness of means, and astounding results are the three criteria of human genius, who could dare to compare any great man in modem history with Muhammad? The most famous men created arms, laws and empires only. They founded, if anything at all, no more than material powers which often crumbled away before their eyes. This man moved not only armies, legislation, empires, peoples and dynasties, but millions of men in one-third of the then-inhabited world; and more than that he moved the altars, the gods, the religions, the ideas, the beliefs and souls,  His forbearance in victory, his ambition which was entirely devoted to one idea and in no manner striving for an empire, his endless prayers, his mystic conversations with God, his death and his triumph after death all these attest not to an imposture but to a firm conviction which gave him the power to restore a dogma. This dogma was twofold: the unity of God and the immateriality of God; the former telling what God is, the latter telling what God is not; the one overthrowing false gods with the sword, the other starting an idea with the words. Philosopher, orator, apostle, legislator, warrior, conqueror of ideas, restorer of rational dogmas, of a cult without images; the founder of twenty terrestrial empires and of one spiritual empire, that is Muhammad. As regards all standards by which human
greatness may be measured, we may well ask, is there any man greater than he?
- Lamartine
Histoire de la Turquie, Pans 1854, Vol. 11, pp. 276-77.

@gist,

gists:

I stand to be corrected, my guess is that u brand him that title for his marriage with Aisha, the six year old girl . . . I don't see how Muhammed qualifies for that title!!! . . . The DSM-IV (American Psychiatric Association, 1994) defines pedophilia in terms of . . .[b]behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children,

The fact that Muhammad married a child says it all - he qualified himself as a pedophile. Would you marry your 6 y.o. daughter (if you had one) to a man over 40?

gists:

Another thing u should have in mind is that he was legally married to her with the concent of both parent of the girl in question.

Muhammad violated the rights of the child by not seeking her consent. Later, when suitors came for his own daughter Fatima, the prophet played religious politics by settling matters on her own consent rather than on how he 'snatched' Aisha from her parents.

gists:

'If there are any among you who worshipped Muhammad, he is dead. But if it is God you worshipped, He lives forever'

Muhammad didn't call anyone to worship him, for no one would worship a sinner - and Muhammad knew that himself (smart fellow)! But when you go through the Qur'an, you find that Islam is disguised polytheism calling the worship of innocent and sincere muslims to pagan gods (plural). I've highlighted several such texts in other threads.

gists:

Just 2 ask u a simple question, which group of people did Muhammed fight dt did not first raised sword against him?

The people that turned away from Islam. They never raised swords first against Muhammad; their crime was simply that they saw that he was not a prophet of the true God.

gists:

In mordern day language his actions will be seen as self defence.

Wrong, that would be murder. Killing innocent people for not believing in your religion is not "self defence" in modern day language when they didn't raise any swords or sticks.

gists:

Please don't let us start all over again on this thread as it will be off post.

Welcome anytime to open another.

gists:

In any case their are far many more attrocities in the bible. I think its better we don't dig

Yes, and it's the same Bible the *allah* of the Qur'an claims to have sent down, revealed, and confirmed! Tip: Christianity is not Judaism. If you want to repost claims that true Christians are as bloodthirsty as Muhammad, please adduce texts in the New Testament that enjoins Christians to kill in order to establish our Christianity. I don't find Jesus Christ exemplified by Muhammad's atrocities.

gists:

In your opinon Muhammed was a thriving womanizer!! Well at least he legally married all of his wife and no 300 concubines. He didn't need to scheme the death of any woman's husband just to sleep with her.

Muhammad's womanizing is authenticated Islamic history - women he seized with his right hand, which he called "booty," and whose husbands he killed.

gists:

[i]If greatness of purpose, smallness of means, and astounding results are the three criteria of human genius, who could dare to compare any great man in modem history with Muhammad?

Many in modern history fit the book: try Johnson, the founder of Ebony magazine - greatness of purpose; smallness of means, and astounding results. Others too numerous for now.

However, human genius does not guarantee salvation with God. Only faith in the Saviour Jesus Christ can ddo that for anyone.

gists:

his mystic conversations with God, his death and his triumph after death all these attest not to an imposture but to a firm conviction which gave him the power to restore a dogma. This dogma was twofold: the unity of God and the immateriality of God; the former telling what God is, the latter telling what God is not;

The dogma he came to "restore" was well being practised before him by his own people; and that dogma was polytheism. Only difference was that Muhammad refined his own. However, this "restoration" did not annul the polytheistic elements in the Qur'an that clearly reveal that their are many "creators" and "gods" in Islam.

gists:

the one overthrowing false gods with the sword, the other starting an idea with the words.

We know that already - only need to add that he sustained both still with the sword.

gists:

Philosopher, orator, apostle, legislator, warrior, conqueror of ideas, restorer of rational dogmas, of a cult without images; the founder of twenty terrestrial empires and of one spiritual empire, that is Muhammad. As regards all standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well ask, is there any man greater than he?
- Lamartine

Lamartine will find out at Christ's return. With all the great titles he accorded Muhammad, one wonders why such a "great" man trembled at the prospect of dying, and indeed was unsure what his *allah* would do to him in that day.

@ Shahan,
Very well said, was gonna give the reply, but you have it far better than i could here.

And yet still i will very well like to know why the sanction of lizards, cockroaches, snakes, vultures, vipers, rats, bats, can be eaten and yet pork is the only animal left out of the list of animals?

by bellotti

Shahan, don't you think its easier to notice a sign of adultery on pregnant woman than a signless man? thats my point. However, i noticed the new found vibe that you came here with to bastardise our discussions. you are very much welcome but i advice you tread carefully. We have had the likes of maliki, david, pataki and havila before you and we shall expect more new comers like you to bring in their haphazard knowledge of theology and blend it with the figments of their imaginations in maligning our already acrimoniuos debates here.

However, the question is i feel christianity is wrong and i expect you to correct my apprehension.

maybe sharia should now include paternity tests.
Most of these stoned women are raped by these sex crazed maniacs but they have absolutely no voices.
What a shame.

belloti:

Shahan, don't you think its easier to notice a sign of adultery on pregnant woman than a signless man? thats my point.

. . . And your point still is - ??

Let me assure you: it is indeed easier to notice the sign of adultery on a pregnant woman than on a "signless" man, especially after Amina Lawal's case in northern Niegria came to light. Of course, there was no clamour for the stoning of the male culprit as it was "not easy to notice the sign" on the "signless man"!

belloti:

However, i noticed the new found vibe that you came here with to bastardise our discussions.

I chose not to reply earlier so as to afford you time to gather yourself together and think through that befuddled line of yours.

belloti:

you are very much welcome but i advice you tread carefully. We have had the likes of maliki, david, pataki and havila before you and we shall expect more new comers like you to bring in their haphazard knowledge of theology and blend it with the figments of their imaginations in maligning our already acrimoniuos debates here.

Wait a mo; is it the 'acrimonious debates' you thought i was maligning. . . or you meant something else but just didn't have the right punch to express it??

belloti:

However, the question is i feel christianity is wrong and i expect you to correct my apprehension.

We all have, but it seems some bolts and screws need adjusting to help your comprehension. In plain language: Christianity offered life to Muhammad; he lost it by denying what would have saved him - and he fell into the worst kind of idolatory ever imagined, as authenticated in Islamic history

Hello shahan,
Thanx 4 ur bit-by-bit response.

shahan:

The fact that Muhammad married a child says it all - he qualified himself as a pedophile. Would you marry your 6 y.o. daughter (if you had one) to a man over 40?

This is the yr 2007 and I will not marry my 6yr old daughter off (just like any sensible person in my culture in this age). But if I had d privilege to live during d time of Mohammed (SAW) YES I WOULD HAVE MARRIED HER OFF!!.  I wonder why people compare & judge d lifestyle of over 1400 yrs ago with current trends? At that time it was perfectly normal for a girl of that age to be married off. It is even said that the girl in question had earlier been engaged to a man before, but her parents dissolved the it on the grounds that the man was an unbeliever. The girl's mother personally handed her over to Mohammed. So you see, it was normal at that time and even you would have married your daughter off had you lived at that time.

shahan:

Muhammad violated the rights of the child by not seeking her consent. Later, when suitors came for his own daughter Fatima, the prophet played religious politics by settling matters on her own consent rather than on how he 'snatched' Aisha from her parents.

Pls do yourself a favour, stop sounding like a narrow minded, narrow thinking person. How do you expect a six year old who lived 1400yrs ago to give her consent on this issue. Even by today’s standard, she way to young to take that kind of decision. In many parts of the world today, people below 15yrs are considered children and their parent are responsible for them. In this country -Nigeria, the boundry between childhood and adulthood is 18yrs. In fact, even adults well into their 20s, 30s and beyond still don’t have full autonomy as to who they marry. Go to the south-eastern part of Nigeria and you hear a man/woman cannot marry from certain tribes even if he or she has found true love from the tribe.

Did you know that Mary (i.e Jesus's mom) between age 13 and 14 was married to Joseph (aged 90) and that she had already conceived Jesus (ASW) by then? By today's standard she'll be seen as a minor.

"The text is framed as an explanation by Jesus on the Mount of Olives as to the life of Joseph, his step-father. Agreeing with Mary's continued virginity, the text proclaims that Joseph had four sons (Judas, Justus, James, and Simon) and two daughters (Assia and Lydia) by a previous marriage. At age 90, after the death of his first wife, Joseph married the twelve year old Mary."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Joseph_the_Carpenter

From a Catholic source:
“Not long after this revelation, Joseph concluded the ritual marriage contract with Mary. The Gospel simply says: "Joseph rising up from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him, and took unto him his wife" (Matthew 1:24). While it is certain that between the betrothal and the marriage at least three months must have elapsed, during which Mary stayed with Elizabeth, it is impossible to determine the exact length of time between the two ceremonies. We do not know how long after the betrothal the angel announced to Mary the mystery of the Incarnation, nor do we know how long the doubt of Joseph lasted _{(Mary got pregnant so he was doubtful),} before he was enlightened by the visit of the angel. From the age at which Hebrew maidens became marriageable, it is possible that Mary gave birth to her Son when she was about thirteen or fourteen years of age _{(subtract nine months to know when she conceived)}. No historical document tells us how old she actually was at the time of the Nativity.”
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm

Let me ask you the same question you asked me, would you marry your 12yr old daughter off? Today my guess is NO. Before you accuse God of being a pedophilia (i.e for getting Mary pregnant at a seemingly tender age by our standard) and of course the 90yr old Joseph, pls bear in mind that at that time it was perfectly normal. Some catholic authorities has it that girls were considered marriageable at age 12yrs and 6months. (Pls note that the Catholics practically worship Mary, their's no reason why they should come up with such lies).

"Jewish maidens were considered marriageable at the age of twelve years and six months, though the actual age of the bride varied with circumstances. The marriage was preceded by the betrothal, after which the bride legally belonged to the bridegroom, though she did not live with him till about a year later, when the marriage used to be celebrated."
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm

"Then the high priest publicly announced that the virgins who were publicly settled in the temple, and had reached this time of life, should return home and get married, according to the custom of the nation and the ripeness of their years. The others readily obeyed this command; but Mary alone, the virgin of the Lord, answered that she could not do this, saying both that her parents had devoted her to the service of the Lord, and that, moreover, she herself had made to the Lord a vow of virginity, which she would never violate by any intercourse with man"
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0849.htm

shahan:

But when you go through the Qur'an, you find that Islam is disguised polytheism calling the worship of innocent and sincere muslims to pagan gods (plural). I've highlighted several such texts in other threads.

Sorry, I can’t keep up with the threads, I’m too busy. Pls do me a favour, kindly repost.

shahan:

The people that turned away from Islam. They never raised swords first against Muhammad; their crime was simply that they saw that he was not a prophet of the true God.

Again do me and other muslims d favour of mentioning concrete examples of these innocent people from good and respectable authorities. Or is that Mohammed devoured all evidence that you can't produce any _{(or they're too many you can't even think of one)}?

shahan:

Yes, and it's the same Bible the *allah* of the Qur'an claims to have sent down, revealed, and confirmed! Tip: Christianity is not Judaism. If you want to repost claims that true Christians are as bloodthirsty as Muhammad, please adduce texts in the New Testament that enjoins Christians to kill in order to establish our Christianity. I don't find Jesus Christ exemplified by Muhammad's atrocities.

I stand to be corrected, I believe the bible is a collection of books, i.e holy books. That’s what its supposed to be before some letters found their way in. That’s why the whole bible is not the same books the Quran said.

I’ve been neglecting and ignoring this OT-NT dichotomy many chritians have been creating. It just sickens me. Why create the divide? Especially when Jesus himself did not! He was clear-cut in his mission "Think not that I _(Jesus)have come to abolish the law _(OT)and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them. For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” That’s in Matthew 5:17 to 19

Beside, even your current leaders i.e pastors still preach with the so called OT. If the OT doesn’t apply to today’s xtians why preach with it? If it doesn’t apply, expunge it! But I think it applies, so it must stay!! Anyway, if you want NT verses that support the OT seemingly archaic laws, for a start try out Romans 1:32 ( I believe it was written by Paul, a NT veteran). I’ll suggest you start from 20 so you don’t run the risk of quoting the bible out-of-contest.

shahan:

The dogma he came to "restore" was well being practised before him by his own people; and that dogma was polytheism. Only difference was that Muhammad refined his own. However, this "restoration" did not annul the polytheistic elements in the Qur'an that clearly reveal that their are many "creators" and "gods" in Islam.

We know that already - only need to add that he sustained both still with the sword.

Examples pls—concrete ones

havila,

no need to explode on me. i quoted those verse from your bible and do yourself good by going through the verses rather than pouring venom on me

so jesus is now the holy spirit, na wa 4 all these your blasphemous statements.

babysis,

stop acting as being blind, go over my response up. ve answered her question unless u lack understanding.

shahan,
professor,



Quote from: babs787 on January 08, 2007, 04:50 PM
to the issue of isa (asw) which is called jesus, they r just twisting issues. the questions raised by shahan was off the track of what we have been saying but having known that there is no hiding place for them, he threw a question different from the one we have been iscussing.(is christianity wrong)

Lol,. . . now that just confirms your struggle with simple English. First, I wasn't the one hiding or "waiting" (remember). Second, because you were scared of your own reading ability, you thought my question was a different one than the topic suggests! In what way??

sorry for that, i was typing very fast and didnt proof read before submitting.

Quote from: babs787 on January 08, 2007, 04:50 PM
jesus was nothing than a prophet, sent to israelite. u know that christians are hypocrites, they can lay their hands on where jesus said, i am here for for sacrifice, kill me and use my blood for atonement.

Oh child, what a snorter! First, the rascally way in which you assume to quote Jesus' supposed sayings from the Bible is an oscar! Kia-kia, grab a Bible and read it - you can't go wrong when you do.

u should know that it was an error of omission. this is what i meant, "they can lay their hands on where jesus said, i am here for for sacrifice, kill me and use my blood for atonement".

Now, even your Qur'an affirms that Jesus was more than a prophet indeed. He was called "Christ" (a title that none of the other prophets in Islam was given); He was also called God's Word as well as a Spirit proceeding from God (Q. 4:171). All these are not even remotely hinted at as being titles given to any other Islamic prophet, nor attributed to the much appraised Muhammad.

go and learn from your brethren the meaning of christ. christo is a  greek word meaning  "anointed one" and he wasnt the only one the title was used for.
check  genesis 31v13 for anointed one
check leviticus 4v3 too
check leviticus 8v10
check isaiah 45 v1.

Ask yourself a salient question here: Why is Jesus referred to as 'Christ' (or, "Messiah" even in the Qur'an? Not even Muhammad could deny that title conveyed on Jesus; but what is the meaning behind that title? Regardless of the denials of the Qur'an about the vicarious work of Christ, have you noticed that not even Muhammad was able to face the Dajjal (the "antichrist"?) This sinister being is not concerned about Muhammad, and that is why he was not called the "antihammad" or "antimu'amad".

pity you. so u dont know that its this same prophet (that u r abusing now) will intercede for you. he will be the first to be raised on that day. beings will go and meet every prophet starting with Adam having stood for years unattended to and adam will direct them to another prophet telling them the reason for his inability to intercede for them. the next prophet will also tell them  same. even jesus will direct them to him (muhammed saw) telling them  the reason for his inability to intercede. its this same prophet that you are abusing now will intercede for you.na wa for you. u better accept him now.


The answer is because Satan's war has never been against Muhammad, but rather against Jesus Christ. The "rasul allah" (as Muhammad is fondly termed) is no speck of trouble to the Dajjal, for the One this enemy fears is actually the Christ. several hadiths testify that Muhammad was indeed terrified of the Dajjal, and concours that only the Christ will be able to pursue and kill this dreadful being (see, for example: Book 40, Number 7023: Narrated Abdullah ibn Amr).

read the response to the issue of dajjal up.

In all these, if Jesus was no more than a "prophet", why was Muhammad, "the rasul allah" so terrified of the Dajjal, but trusted so much that only Christ could vanquish the sinister minister of sin?

ve answered that, read it up.

Quote from: babs787 on January 08, 2007, 04:50 PM
they claim that jesus of the bible was sinless

We still stand by that claim.

i gave u verse to support it

Quote from: babs787 on January 08, 2007, 04:50 PM
and i brought out certain verses for them.

. . . and which one of those verses proved that Jesus was a sinner?

read my earlier post and maybe u refresh my memory by quoting the verse that proved muhammed was a sinner.

Quote from: babs787 on January 08, 2007, 04:50 PM
jesus wasnt the only prophet to be acused of things, most of the prophets of God were accused of adultery, fornication etc and which isnt supposed to be like that.

Babs787, Muhammad should really be ashamed of you! Not even your prophet with a thousand sins could prove that Jesus committed adultery, fornication, etc. To be sure, look again, and we stand by the claim that Muhammad was a sinner too shameful to be quoted in a public forum. Thing is, not one of you chaps has come to refute that claim.

verses from the quran pls?

Quote from: babs787 on January 08, 2007, 04:50 PM
I DIDNT SAY JESUS WAS SINFUL LIKEWISE MUHAMMED (SAW) BUT I BROUGHT OUT VERSES FROM THE BIBLE FOR THEM TO SEE.

You quickly and directly deny the very thing you proclaim indirectly. Sorry for you; English has been a tough one on you.

professor, u misconstrued the statement. this is what i meant. jesus and muhammed in my book were sinless but your bible in which i quoted above for you (maybe u r not with your glasses) proved him to be a sinner and i gave u the verses above.

Quote from: babs787 on January 08, 2007, 04:50 PM
we the entire muslim world believe in jesus (but not as a son, or saviour nor who was crucified) and we accord him respect like every other prophets because we were told never to make comparism among the prophets, we equally believe in all of them including jesus

And which version of "jesus" do you believe in - the cannabis jesus, the kinky jesus whom you insinuated might have been accused of fornication and adultery? No wonder you fellows are scared to investigate matters for yourself - because you don't know beyond 'what you have been told'!

we believe in jesus as a prophet and slave of Allah and not son, saviour or who died and was crucified for your sin). scared to investigate what sir?

Quote from: babs787 on January 08, 2007, 04:50 PM
and by the way maybe if you christians do not know, muhammed, wasnt the only prophet of islam, so why the fuss,

We know that already - that Muhammad wasn't the only "prophet" of Islam! As he did, so his followers - get it now?? The fuss is that you chaps have the uncanny and frivilous air of Quriash inability to reason!! Open yours eyes - read the Qur'an beyond what you have been told!!

even jesus was a muslim including his disciples.

Quote from: babs787 on January 08, 2007, 04:50 PM
even jesus wasnt a christian and all the prophets before him practised islam. so in a nutshell muhammed (saw) wasnt the originator iof Islam.

Oh child! I wish you'd open your eyes and see that even Muhammad wasn't sure of the origins of Islam - and the claim of Jesus practicing Islam (of all things) was a cheap interjection Muhammad sold gullible people who only believe what they have been told. You really don't have a clue about what you're practising.

go to this verses to buttress my point that jesus was a muslim likewise abraham and jacob

QURAN 42 V 13 –16:HE ALLAH HAS ORDAINED FOR YOU THE SAME RELIGION (ISLAMIC MONOTHEISM) WHICH HE ORDAINED FOR NOAH, AND THAT WHICH WE HAVE REVEALED UNTO YOU (O MUHAMMED SAW), AND THAT WHICH WE ORDAINED FOR ABRAHAM, MOSES, AND JESUS SAYING YOU SHOULD ESTABLISH RELIGION (TO DO WHAT IT ORDERS YOU TO DO PRACTICALLY), AND MAKE NO DIVISIONS IN IT (RELIGION) (I.E. VARIOUS SECTS IN RELIGION), INTOLERABLE FOR THE MUSHRIKUN IS THAT ISLAMIC MONOTHEISM) TO WHICH YOU (O MUHAMMED  SAW) CALL THEM, ALAH CHOOSES FOR HIMSELF WHOM HE WILLS, AND GUIDES UNTO HIMSELF WHO TURNS TO HIM IN REPENTANCE AND IN OBEDIENCE.
V 14: AND THEY DIVIDED NOT TILL AFTER KNOWLEDGE HAD COME TO THEM, THROUGH (SELFISH) TRANSGRESSION BETWEEN THEMSELVES. AND HAD IT NOT BEEN FOR A WORD THAT WENT FORTH BEFORE FROM YOUR LORD FOR AN APPOINTED TERM, THE MATTER WOULD HAVE BEEN SETTLED BETWEEN THEM. AND VERILY, THOSE WHO WERE MADE TO INHERIT THE SCRIPTURES ( THE TORAH AND THE GOSPEL) AFTER THEM (JEWS AND CHRISTIANS) ARE IN GRAVE DOUBT CONCERNING IT (ALLAH’S TRUE RELIGION, ISLAM AND THE QURAN)
V 15: SO UNTO THIS (RELIGION OF ISLAM ALONE AND THIS QURAN) THEN INVITE (PEOPLE) ( O MUHAMMED SAW) AND STAND FIRM (ON ISLAMIC MONOTHEISM) BY PERFORMING ALL THAT IS ORDAINED BY ALLAH (GOOD DEEDS), AND BY ABSTAINING FROM ALL THAT IS FORBIDDEN BY ALLAH (SINS AND EVIL DEEDS), AS YOU ARE COMMANDED, AND FOLLOW NOT THEIR DESIRE BUT SAY : “I BELIEVE IN WHATSOEVER ALLAH HAS SENT DOWN  OF THE BOOK (ALL THE HOLY BOOKS INCLUDING QURAN) OR THE PAGES OF ABRAHAM AND I AM COMMANDED TO DO JUSTICE AMONG YOU”. ALLAH IS OUR LORD AND YOUR LORD. FOR US OUR DEEDS AND FOR YOU YOUR DEEDS. THERE IS NO DISPUTE BETWEEN US AND YOU. ALLAH WILL ASSEMBLE US (ALL), AND TO HIM IS THE FINAL RETURN.
V 16: AND TO THOSE WHO DISPUTE CONCERNING ALLAH (HIS RELIGION OF ISLAMIC MONOTHEISM WITH WHICH MUHAMMED SAW HAS BEEN SENT), AFTER IT HAS BEEN ACCEPTED (BY THE PEOPLE), OF NO USE IS THEIR DISPUTE BEFORE THEIR LORD AND ON THEM IS WRATH, AND FOR THEM WIL BE A SEVERE TORMENT.
V 17: IT IS ALLAH WHO HAS SENT DOWN THE BOOK (THE QURAN) IN TRUTH, AND THE BALANCE (TO ACT JUSTLY). AND WHAT CAN MAKE YOU KNOW THAT PERHAPS THE HOUR IS CLOSE AT HAND?

Jesus was not a Muslim - He was not called "jesus-mus" or "jesus-slam" or "jesus slim": He was called Jesus CHRIST, from whom you get the name "Christians". Haa! na wah!!  

go and find out the meaning of christ. also do a research for me and tell me where the word "christianity" was mentioned during jesus era. also read it up below it was mentioned that he was a muslim, na wa, pls seek for knowledge and dont be like hosea 4V6

na wa for you. this your bible no let you see road.The below verses will show you that Islam has been in existence before Muhammed (SAW) , even jesus was a muslim, happy reading

QURAN 42 V 13 –16:HE ALLAH HAS ORDAINED FOR YOU THE SAME RELIGION (ISLAMIC MONOTHEISM) WHICH HE ORDAINED FOR NOAH, AND THAT WHICH WE HAVE REVEALED UNTO YOU (O MUHAMMED SAW), AND THAT WHICH WE ORDAINED FOR ABRAHAM, MOSES, AND JESUS SAYING YOU SHOULD ESTABLISH RELIGION (TO DO WHAT IT ORDERS YOU TO DO PRACTICALLY), AND MAKE NO DIVISIONS IN IT (RELIGION) (I.E. VARIOUS SECTS IN RELIGION), INTOLERABLE FOR THE MUSHRIKUN IS THAT ISLAMIC MONOTHEISM) TO WHICH YOU (O MUHAMMED  SAW) CALL THEM, ALAH CHOOSES FOR HIMSELF WHOM HE WILLS, AND GUIDES UNTO HIMSELF WHO TURNS TO HIM IN REPENTANCE AND IN OBEDIENCE.
V 14: AND THEY DIVIDED NOT TILL AFTER KNOWLEDGE HAD COME TO THEM, THROUGH (SELFISH) TRANSGRESSION BETWEEN THEMSELVES. AND HAD IT NOT BEEN FOR A WORD THAT WENT FORTH BEFORE FROM YOUR LORD FOR AN APPOINTED TERM, THE MATTER WOULD HAVE BEEN SETTLED BETWEEN THEM. AND VERILY, THOSE WHO WERE MADE TO INHERIT THE SCRIPTURES ( THE TORAH AND THE GOSPEL) AFTER THEM (JEWS AND CHRISTIANS) ARE IN GRAVE DOUBT CONCERNING IT (ALLAH’S TRUE RELIGION, ISLAM AND THE QURAN)
V 15: SO UNTO THIS (RELIGION OF ISLAM ALONE AND THIS QURAN) THEN INVITE (PEOPLE) ( O MUHAMMED SAW) AND STAND FIRM (ON ISLAMIC MONOTHEISM) BY PERFORMING ALL THAT IS ORDAINED BY ALLAH (GOOD DEEDS), AND BY ABSTAINING FROM ALL THAT IS FORBIDDEN BY ALLAH (SINS AND EVIL DEEDS), AS YOU ARE COMMANDED, AND FOLLOW NOT THEIR DESIRE BUT SAY : “I BELIEVE IN WHATSOEVER ALLAH HAS SENT DOWN  OF THE BOOK (ALL THE HOLY BOOKS INCLUDING QURAN) OR THE PAGES OF ABRAHAM AND I AM COMMANDED TO DO JUSTICE AMONG YOU”. ALLAH IS OUR LORD AND YOUR LORD. FOR US OUR DEEDS AND FOR YOU YOUR DEEDS. THERE IS NO DISPUTE BETWEEN US AND YOU. ALLAH WILL ASSEMBLE US (ALL), AND TO HIM IS THE FINAL RETURN.
V 16: AND TO THOSE WHO DISPUTE CONCERNING ALLAH (HIS RELIGION OF ISLAMIC MONOTHEISM WITH WHICH MUHAMMED SAW HAS BEEN SENT), AFTER IT HAS BEEN ACCEPTED (BY THE PEOPLE), OF NO USE IS THEIR DISPUTE BEFORE THEIR LORD AND ON THEM IS WRATH, AND FOR THEM WIL BE A SEVERE TORMENT.
V 17: IT IS ALLAH WHO HAS SENT DOWN THE BOOK (THE QURAN) IN TRUTH, AND THE BALANCE (TO ACT JUSTLY). AND WHAT CAN MAKE YOU KNOW THAT PERHAPS THE HOUR IS CLOSE AT HAND?

am not suprised at your lost battle. read the below verse

QURAN 6V125: AND WHOMEVER ALLAH WILLS TO GUIDE, HE OPENS HIS HEART TO ISLAM, AND WHOMSOEVER HE WILLS, HE SEND ASTRAY, HE MAKES HIS HEART CLOSED AND CONSTRICTED, AS IF HE IS CLIMBING UP TO THE SKY. THIS ALLAH PUTS THE WRATH ON THOSE WHO BELIEVE NOT.

also

QURAN 61V7: AND WHO DOES MORE WRONG THAN THE ONE WHO INVENTS A LIE AGAINST ALLAH, WHILE HE S HE BEING INVITED TO ISLAM? AND ALLAH GUIDES NOT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE ZALIMUN (POLYTHEISTS, WRONGDOERS, DISBELIEVERS) FOLK.
QURAN 61 V 8: THEY INTEND TO PUT OUT THE LIGHT OF ALLAH ( THE RELIGION OF ISLAM, THE QURAN AND THE PROPHET MUHAMMED (SAW) WITH THEIR MOUTHS, BUT ALLAH WILL BRING HIS LIGHT TO PERFECTION EVEN THOUGH THE DISBELIEVERS HATE.
QURAN 61 V 9: HE IT IS WHO HAS SENT HIS MESSENGER (MUHAMMED SAW) WITH GUIDANCE AND THE RELIGION OF TRUTH (ISLAMIC MONOTHEISM) TO MAKE IT VICTORIOUS OVER ALL (OTHER) RELIGIONS,EVEN THOUGH THE MUSHRIKUN (POLYTHEISTS, PAGANS, IDOLATERS, AND DISBELIEVERS IN THE ONENESS OF ALLAH AND HIS MESSENGER (MUHAMMED SAW) HATE (IT).
QURAN 49 V 17: THEY REGARD A FAVOUR FROM YOU ( O MUHAMMED SAW) THAT THEY HAVE EMBRACED ISLAM, SAY: “COUNT NOT YOUR ISLAM AS A FAVOUR TO ME. NAY, BUT ALLAH HAS CONFERRED A FAVOUR UPON YUOU THAT HE HAS GUIDED YOU TO THE FAITH IF YOU INDEED ARE TRUE.

are u satisfied? the earlier u accept the truth, the better for you, havila, babyosis, shahan, mrpataki, davidyan et al, u r all invited to join Noah's Ark of Today before its too late

candi mozi, no real muslim kills his neighbour. mob actions can never be justified. Baby, i like your suggestion about parternity test, am sure it could be applicable in sharia law too. Shahan, am sorry about my language, i believe i was hard on you. i think you behave maturedly. Anyway, lets carry on nicely

babs enjoy your Mohammedan ark which would lead straight to hell.

Please try to improve your writing skills.
It's not unislamic to learn to read and write and even reason appropriately.
I thought you should have learnt a thing or 2 from the likes of Havila,Shahan,tayoD and davidylan by now.

Don't they teach English and GS 101 at Zamfara poly?

@belloti,

belloti:

Shahan, am sorry about my language, i believe i was hard on you. i think you behave maturedly. Anyway, lets carry on nicely

Sallam. May I also in fair exchange quickly apologise for any matter my posts have been inappropriate to you. Peace bro.

gist

Correction Pedophiles Marry aged women so that they can feed on their daughter May that was his training ground because you and I know that he was a Pedophile but he did it openly .

babysis,

sorry i was a dropped out. can you refer me to any pastoral school.

babs enjoy your Mohammedan ark which would lead straight to hell.

deaconess bsbysis, are u judging? uve all seen that jesus was a muslim> na wa o.

QURAN 6V125: AND WHOMEVER ALLAH WILLS TO GUIDE, HE OPENS HIS HEART TO ISLAM, AND WHOMSOEVER HE WILLS, HE SEND ASTRAY, HE MAKES HIS HEART CLOSED AND CONSTRICTED, AS IF HE IS CLIMBING UP TO THE SKY. THIS ALLAH PUTS THE WRATH ON THOSE WHO BELIEVE NOT.

babysis,

professor, little wonder "recite" and "interprete" meant same thing to you

babs787:

QURAN 6V125: AND WHOMEVER ALLAH WILLS TO GUIDE, HE OPENS HIS HEART TO ISLAM, AND WHOMSOEVER HE WILLS, HE SEND ASTRAY, HE MAKES HIS HEART CLOSED AND CONSTRICTED, AS IF HE IS CLIMBING UP TO THE SKY. THIS ALLAH PUTS THE WRATH ON THOSE WHO BELIEVE NOT.

this allah is the very epitome of sheer wickedness! There is no mercy to be found in him!

babs787:


sorry i was a dropped out. can you refer me to any pastoral school.

babs,
sorry you dont need to go to pastoral school yet, not while you are still struggling with basic comprehension and english language. Flipping ignoramus! a "dropped" out indeed!

I'm sure bellotti is wishing you didn't quote that verse that showed forth allah in all his "glory"
You sure can "recite" it seven ways and perhaps the meaning may change or the latter part abrogated lol

belloti:

Shahan, don't you think its easier to notice a sign of adultery on pregnant woman than a signless man? thats my point.

. . . And your point still is - ??

Let me assure you: it is indeed easier to notice the sign of adultery on a pregnant woman than on a "signless" man, especially after Amina Lawal's case in northern Niegria came to light. Of course, there was no clamour for the stoning of the male culprit as it was "not easy to notice the sign" on the "signless man"!

I chose not to reply earlier so as to afford you time to gather yourself together and think through that befuddled line of yours.

belloti:

However, i noticed the new found vibe that you came here with to bastardise our discussions. you are very much welcome but i advice you tread carefully. We have had the likes of maliki, david, pataki and havila before you and we shall expect more new comers like you to bring in their haphazard knowledge of theology and blend it with the figments of their imaginations in maligning our already acrimoniuos debates here.

Wait a mo; is it the 'acrimonious debates' you thought i was maligning. . . or you meant something else but just didn't have the right punch to express it??

belloti:

However, the question is i feel christianity is wrong and i expect you to correct my apprehension.

We all have, but it seems some bolts and screws need adjusting to help your comprehension. In plain language: Christianity offered life to Muhammad; he lost it by denying what would have saved him - and he fell into the worst kind of idolatory ever imagined, as authenticated in Islamic history.

havila,

i thought u have changed but u never did, u bloody slowpoke, it has dawned on me that ur lack of manner of approach is still haunting u and eating deep into your flesh.

i wont be suprised if you likewise go the same way u addressed issues in other threads.(u got what i meant)

its obvious you are not a christian, because if you are you say what you said about worshipping someone who could die. Jesus Christ is God in the form of man and He came specifically to give life to those that believe in Him. You should talk to someone in a better position to explain somethings you don't know. As for those who criticize islam or christianity, i say hold your peace.

Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the light.
Jesus died for us and was resurected. Praise be to God Almighty.

i dont understand u muslims. U had better accept Jesus Christ as ur personal Lord and Saviour b4 its too Late.

Islam was founded on the basis of violence, i mean by the sword.

lokk at this statement and ponder.:"Christians & Jewish martyrs say; "I will die for what I believe".
A Muslim martyr says; "you will die for what I believe",

islam is a forced religion. i would prefare other religions rather than been a muslim.
i feel there is a complexity with muslims. any little thing about their religion they flair up.

The god of Muslims is revealed as a tyrant who demands Muslims submit to him. Whereas in the New Testament, Jesus revealed to Christians a God who is a loving Father, who wants us to come to Him via free will. In the Old Testament (Exodus 34:6) the real God revealed Himself as "merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth".

When a Muslim declares that Islam is a religion of peace, he/she is either ignorant of the Koran (Qur'an), or is deceitfully thinking of this "peace", as it extends only to those within the Muslim Community. The deceit is that they will not tell you exactly what they mean. According to the Qur'an: "Muhammad is the Apostle of Allah. Those who follow him are merciful to one another, but ruthless to unbelievers" Sura 48:29. "Kill the Mushrikun (unbelievers) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush, " Sura 9:5. Also see Sura 9:29 Please note that there is not a single verse in the entire Christian Bible that contains this "open-ended", universal command to kill/or be ruthless to unbelievers.

The Muslim Qur'an (Koran) and Muslim Hadith are unique among all the sacred writings in the entire world -- because they alone counsel its followers to make war on unbelievers.

As you will see below, the Qur'an is a made up book of gibberish, of evil verses abrogating holy verses.


Both Muslim holy books (Qur'an/Koran and Hadith) contain commands for Muslims to subjugate the world, militarily. Muhammad commanded Muslims to spread Islam through Offensive Jihad[/color]; or conquest of non-Muslim lands. Muslims are also commanded to take back any land that was formerly Muslim, such as Israel.

Radical Muslims believe that they are Mujahideen, or "holy warriors of Allah". Their goal, like Islam's goal is to establish the entire world as a pure Islamic state (a Khalifah), which conforms to Islamic laws.

An example of what Muslim children are taught in Muslim schools is this statement, found in a Jordanian/Palestinian school book in 1998:

"This religion (Islam) will destroy all other religions through the Islamic Jihad fighters"

Pls visit this url for more information about the history of islam: [color=#990000]"http://bibleprobe.com/muhammad.htm"[/color][color=#990000][/color][color=#990000]

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