Goshen360:

^
These Christian Judaizers should leave us alone to live by the teachings and law of Christ rather than trying to bind us with the Mosaic laws. It wasn't written to us in the first place.

MostHigh:

which wan come be love of christ

did christ not obey the mosaic law

lawless reprobates

Goshen360:
Many Christians are still counting 10 commandmentS (plural) while Jesus had moved from 10 to one. Many are still bothered or carrying the yoke while Christ yoke is light. He took the 10 commandmentS (plural) which he gave on Sinai by himself and replaced or made it ONE, an all-inclusive one and yet many of us are still counting 10 thou shall not, thou shall not. Christ is the one that made the 10 commandments of Moses into ONE, not Goshen360, we only need to get the revelation and flow in it. If the one is obeyed, the 10 is obeyed. If the one is fulfilled, the 10 is not given a special preference and consciousness. This is the same message that is carried on by the Apostles. The message doesn't change within the Apostles. It was the message of Christ, from 10 commandmentS (plural) to ONE command(ment), (singular).

zikkyy:
Okay. is the body driven by the activities of the shadow or is it the other way round? so can a shadow exist without a body? can the body not have a shadow? well you said it already; in darkness and just as the shadow cannot be found in darkness, the mosaic law is equally useless in most situations. i.e. it is incomplete.

shdemidemi:
Christ arrived under the law, but He had to offer himself as the sacrifice to start a new covenant and to propitiate for the sin of the world (not just the Jews).The caveat here is for us to believe just as Abraham did to be righteous and not by any good works.

Man is made up of spirit mind and body..when we come to Christ our spirit is saved not our flesh. We need to renew our mind by the word of God because out of the mind are issues of life proverbs 4:23, which inevitably compress the sin nature(body).

No matter how much you try to abstain from sin, you will end up going back to sin. This situation don't mean you are no more of Christ or you have been condemned.

You can't stop sinning because you were first a human,
Feeding our spirit man with the word of God renews our mind and our perspective which gradually suppress our sin nature.

@Goshen360:
So, the answer to your question is NO! The words that I speak to you are spirit and life, are the words spoken or he spoke to the Apostles\Disciples, not to any others that the scripture attest to; stop dis-jointing the context of scriptures please, it is a bad way of interpretation. If we partake of those words, it is not because it was directly spoken to us as among the 12 then but because by extension or meaning of disciples, we are followers of Christ. That's why not all teachings of Christ was for all public.

@Alwaystrue:
Jesus came to fulfil the law and take the penalty of death. He had to do both. It is because you do not understand this that you keep going on and on.

@Bidam:
But by studying Paul's own words, such a position can be disproved "I speak not by Commandment ... and herein I give my advice" (2 Cor. 8: 8-10). Paul's "advice" undoubtedly was good, but it certainly was not always the Word of God.

@shdemidemi:
1 Timothy 1:11
according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which was committed to my trust.

He gave the gospel of the church to only Apostle Paul.

You quoted John, check of that book is written to the church or the 12 tribes of Israel. I believe you are not a Jew in flesh so the message to you are messages to the church cos you were a gentile. Remember when Paul went to the gentile and Peter went to the Jews.

@zikkyy:
everyone who sins break the divine law of God. This is different from the mosaic law.

@Goshen360:
^
These Christian Judaizers should leave us alone to live by the teachings and law of Christ rather than trying to bind us with the Mosaic laws. It wasn't written to us in the first place.

shdemidemi: Contrary to the believe that if you accept Christ then sin automatically leaves you. Accepting Christ brings the Holy Spirit in you,therefore you are not the same man that you was cos a conflicting spirit now lives within your body. But, you are still the same guy that use to sin a day before. No matter how much you try to abstain from sin, you will end up going back to sin. This situation don't mean you are no more of Christ or you have been condemned.

You can't stop sinning because you were first a human, every human has a sin nature inherited from the transgression of the first man(Adam and Eve) and we all have a mind that relates (profane) information to our heart which forms our perspective and intuition. The scriptures says the heart of man is deceitful and desperately wicked, so no man can do good within himself. The Bible says even our best behaviour is like filthy rags before Him.

Therefore, when you come to Christ you need to feed your spirit man with the true word of God, without this the Holy Spirit will remain redundant within us. Feeding our spirit man with the word of God renews our mind and our perspective which gradually suppress our sin nature.

Image123:
BTW, the laws found in new testament are more difficult and even impossible to keep by our strength, compared to those found in the OT. So its not/shouldn't be a fight of not regarding the OT. The law is like a mirror, showing us our faults and what we should do. But it is faulty in that it cannot help us. just like a glass/mirror cannot help you or clean you up. It simply tells/shows the dirt, ugliness, wounds, mar, twist etc The mirror is 'useless' to change us or clean us. You wouldn't want to use a mirror to wash your face. It is Jesus that can wash us by His grace, word and blood. That's what makes the new covenant/agreement better. It is that we are SHOWN what to do, our faults etc, and we also have grace to help us in time of need. Grace came by Jesus primarily. This is the simple gospel. All the twist about Moses, pharisees and Old testament is uncalled for. The book of the law remains perfect till tomorrow. There is nothing wrong with it in showing us right and wrong etc. but we are not to depend on it but on Jesus. All the commands from Genesis to Revelation are rooted in love, and God is love. Without God, we can do nothing. With God, everything is possible. All personal effort and might to obey the law, whether of Moses or of Jesus or of love, will ultimately result in failure. It's not by power or by might. The good news is that Jesus is willing and able to help us if we trust Him to.

Alwaystrue: @Image123,
Infact....you have quoted it all. Thanks for summarising it. He who has ears, let him hear.


You have summed it beautifully here and said all that I had been trying to say. God bless you and may you grow more in Grace and favour of God.

NOWHERE in the bible was it said the law was evil. It was a mirror that always showed faults and Jesus came and fulfilled the law as it should and showed us the law of the Spirit (as seen in the fruits of the Spirit) which is the source to fulfil the law. Thus looking in the mirror as a renewed christian, we see Jesus in us. The day I got understanding of this, I now understand why the Grace Jesus gave us is priceless.

MostHigh:

Yashua rested on saturday you rest on sunday how is this a mirror image?

as above so below

you cannot be like yashau in spirit and it will not manifest in flesh

Alwaystrue: WHAT IS SABBATH?

The Lord of the Sabbath is Jesus Christ. Matthew 12:1-14. He said this when the Pharisees were asking why His disciples were plucking grain in the field and when the Pharisees asked if they can 'work on the sabbath' as a way to bait him.

Sabath means rest just as God rested on the 7th day from all his labours. This is symbolic of what Christ Jesus said in Matthew 11:28, come to me all you who are burdened and heavy laden and I will give you rest. Jesus is the only one who can give rest and that is why He said Sabbath (rest) was made for man and not man for the Sabbath (rest).

Further on, Paul said:


Hebrews 4:1-8
God’s promise of entering his rest still stands, so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it. 2 For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God . 3 FOR ONLY WE WHO BELIEVE CAN ENTER HIS REST . As for the others, God said,

“In my anger I took an oath:
‘They will never enter my place of rest,’”

even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. 4 We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.”[c] 5 But in the other passage God said, “They will never enter my place of rest.”[d]

6 So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. 7 So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is TODAY . God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted:

“Today when you hear his voice,
don’t harden your hearts.”[e]

8 Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. 9 So there is a special rest[f] still waiting for the people of God. 10 FOR ALL WHO HAVE ENTERED INTO GOD' REST HAVE RESTED FROM THEIR LABOURS, JUST AS GOD DID AFTER CREATING THE WORLD . 11 So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall .[/color]

Does this mean we should not still 'rest' our physical bodies especially. No, because:

Colosians 2:16-17
16 So don’t let anyone condemn you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating certain holy days or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths. 17 For these rules are only shadows of the reality yet to come. And Christ himself is that reality.
The law was the shadow and Christ is the full reality of that shadow that is why He came to give the true meaning of what God meant and backed it up with the law.

So whether you chose to 'rest' on Saturday or Sunday, do it all to the Lord for those that trust in Jesus Christ have received His rest.
That is my contribution based on my understanding of scripture.

Alwaystrue:

Alwaystrue: @Image123,
Infact....you have quoted it all. Thanks for summarising it. He who has ears, let him hear.


You have summed it beautifully here and said all that I had been trying to say. God bless you and may you grow more in Grace and favour of God.

NOWHERE in the bible was it said the law was evil. It was a mirror that always showed faults and Jesus came and fulfilled the law as it should and showed us the law of the Spirit (as seen in the fruits of the Spirit) which is the source to fulfil the law. Thus looking in the mirror as a renewed christian, we see Jesus in us. The day I got understanding of this, I now understand why the Grace Jesus gave us is priceless.

Alwaystrue: @Image123,
Infact....you have quoted it all. Thanks for summarising it. He who has ears, let him hear.


You have summed it beautifully here and said all that I had been trying to say. God bless you and may you grow more in Grace and favour of God.

NOWHERE in the bible was it said the law was evil. It was a mirror that always showed faults and Jesus came and fulfilled the law as it should and showed us the law of the Spirit (as seen in the fruits of the Spirit) which is the source to fulfil the law. Thus looking in the mirror as a renewed christian, we see Jesus in us. The day I got understanding of this, I now understand why the Grace Jesus gave us is priceless.

Image123:
The law is like a mirror, showing us our faults and what we should do.

Image123:
What we need to KNOW about the law whatever law(whether found in Genesis or Revelation) is that it is given to show us the truth. It is given that all men may stand guilty as it were.

Image123:
BTW, the laws found in new testament are more difficult and even impossible to keep by our strength, compared to those found in the OT.

Image123:
It is Jesus that can wash us by His grace, word and blood. That's what makes the new covenant/agreement better.

Image123:
The law is like a mirror, showing us our faults and what we should do. But it is faulty in that it cannot help us.

Image123:
All the commands from Genesis to Revelation are rooted in love, and God is love.

Zikkyy:

you are either confused or you are deceiving yourself. oga image123, you mean you need an incomplete law to show you your faults okay for those faults not covered by the law (see Mathew 5 for sample), tell me how the law will 'mirror' you (pardon my grammar ) and tell us the solution provided in the law (mosaic). You can see you are deceiving yourself you better move up to the next level, come join the happening guys & gurls in Christ



Now that you found the truth, why are stuck to a law that was given to show you the truth? abi you never recover from the shock you better move on by taking the next step (Jesus is calling you )



so this is why you chose to remain old school? lazy man



...you agree that there is a new covenant/agreement and it is better. that's good



Image123, you are not a serious man o! so you even know the mosaic law cannot help you i.e. it is not a law for you, so why the do or die approach to defending a usefulness you know was never there you know you have been defending it as if your means of livelihood depends on adherence to the mosaic law



so why not allow love take control instead of this ya mechanical approach to obedience if you allow a love driven approach to obeying God's command, you will not even remember that there is a mosaic law somewhere. Only those peeps deceiving themselves or forcing themselves to obeying God commands remembers the mosaic law. You know the law was meant for evil doers. Do you belong to that camp?

Alwaystrue: @Image123,
Thus looking in the mirror as a renewed christian, we see Jesus in us. The day I got understanding of this, I now understand why the Grace Jesus gave us is priceless.

Zikkyy:

you people are as confused as ever. if you look at the law, you will not see Jesus o! you more likely to see Moses if you want to see Jesus look at the revised law instead

MostHigh:

MORE CONFUSION

Zikkyy:

Lol! am not sure you read my post. you must have programmed yaself to respond in a particular to my post

MostHigh:
From the above it is clear that yashua obeyed the mosaic law to the end

MostHigh:
Do as I do should be the way (Do as yashua do)

Zikkyy:

i can see you made up ya mind to obey mosaic law thereby ignoring Christ law. so when are you having your next burnt offering service? i need to visit you. i want to witness it and if possible record it so generations to come can see what a burnt offering service looks like

MostHigh:
see as you expose your vain thoughts for all to see.

MostHigh:
23 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and PASTORS, you hypocrites! You are collecting tithes. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should not have practiced the latter, and neglected the former. 24 You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

1. Can you see the phrase more impoertant matters of the LAW in the above statement?

MostHigh:
2. Can you see the phrase law/justice in the above statement?

MostHigh:
3. Is the law not judgement?

MostHigh:
I am sure you cant being a desciple of paul

MostHigh:
I am expecting your response to be pauline pls suprise me and quote Yashua if you can

Zikkyy:

Yes, i can



Yes, i can



If you say so



This na bad belle



i hope i did not disappoint

christemmbassey: my brother what u've just writen is the chief reason why 'christians' sin, have u ever seen a verse like ''if any man is in Christ, he is a new crdation, old things have passed away, behold allthings are become NEW"?

shdemidemi:

Like Paul says, man never knew what sin was before the law. What you refer to be a sin today is what the law calls a sin. Therefore the law exposed sin to us, exactly what Gods intention was before the law was given.


Romans 5:20
Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
20 The law was brought in so that more people would sin the way Adam did. But where sin increased, there was even more of God’s grace.

What you need to do is to stop looking at sin from the eye of the law because just like you are not under the law of Moses as a Christian, you are also not under sin.

You mentioned when you are in Christ everything is new... This statement remains through in the spirit cos the day you become a Christian you automatically have 2 natures- the old nature which you always had and a new one which you just got through Christ. There will always be a conflict due to resident information present in us and the new information that will come (that is, the right information). A lack of the right information will always give rise to and opportunity for the wrong to express itself.

So the more you feed the new spirit with the word of God, the more you deny the old nature from expressing itself. It is never automatic cos the Bible says:
2 Corinthians 3:18
Amplified Bible (AMP)
18 And all of us, as with unveiled face, [because we] continued to behold [in the Word of God] as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are constantly being transfigured into His very own image in ever increasing splendor and from one degree of glory to another; [for this comes] from the Lord [Who is] the Spirit.


Judas betrayed Christ. Of course what He did is wrong but God needed someone to commit that act cos Jesus had to die. It's better you concentrate on your walk with Christ instead of trying to do Gods work by trying to make everyone do right. God needs the good,bad ugly to solve the puzzle.

I think that should be enough for now.

Image123:
this issue of cherry picking again. Paul said committed to my trust. You said "committed ONLY to Paul's trust. Do you know where that word "ONLY" came from? From YOU. The gospel is committed into every human being. it should be every believer's ministry. Jesus gave the gospel to His disciples long long ago when Paul was still gathering stones and compassing land and sea.
Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Paul was not entrusted a monopoly of the gospel.

You err bro. He was entrusted the monopoly of the gospel to the church
1 Timothy 1:11
11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which was committed to my trust.

Slowly but steadily, satan is moving people there. Cut and cut and cut. Now 1John too shouldbe cut, as it is to 12 tribes(whatever that means). Jesus, please come soon.

It should not be cut simply because it is not a book to the church but within the letter we can see the attributes of God and His relationship with his earthly people (Jews). As a Christian you are Gods spiritual people.


oga, what is/are the divine law of God. Where is it?
Gods unwritten divine law are those things made known to us through our conscience as it was written to Gentiles -

20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21

Cane and Abel lived under this sort of law. It was strictly by conscience.

MostHigh:

you dont ever quote christ why?

MostHigh:

but you expect to live by state laws and even observe them fearfully

but when it comes to your fathers laws you say no need because you worship hin in spirit.

What about the truth?

what happens to the truth which is the whole written word?

shdemidemi:

Like Paul says, man never knew what sin was before the law. What you refer to be a sin today is what the law calls a sin. Therefore the law exposed sin to us, exactly what Gods intention was before the law was given.


Romans 5:20
Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
20 The law was brought in so that more people would sin the way Adam did. But where sin increased, there was even more of God’s grace.

What you need to do is to stop looking at sin from the eye of the law because just like you are not under the law of Moses as a Christian, you are also not under sin.

You mentioned when you are in Christ everything is new... This statement remains through in the spirit cos the day you become a Christian you automatically have 2 natures- the old nature which you always had and a new one which you just got through Christ. There will always be a conflict due to resident information present in us and the new information that will come (that is, the right information). A lack of the right information will always give rise to and opportunity for the wrong to express itself.

So the more you feed the new spirit with the word of God, the more you deny the old nature from expressing itself. It is never automatic cos the Bible says:
2 Corinthians 3:18
Amplified Bible (AMP)
18 And all of us, as with unveiled face, [because we] continued to behold [in the Word of God] as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are constantly being transfigured into His very own image in ever increasing splendor and from one degree of glory to another; [for this comes] from the Lord [Who is] the Spirit.


Judas betrayed Christ. Of course what He did is wrong but God needed someone to commit that act cos Jesus had to die. It's better you concentrate on your walk with Christ instead of trying to do Gods work by trying to make everyone do right. God needs the good,bad ugly to solve the puzzle.

I think that should be enough for now.

shdemidemi:

I didn't speak my word, if you have any grievances, it should be directed to the scriptures.
State laws are secular laws of the earth that are controlled by the devil..it has nothing to do with my spirit my friend

2 Do not be conformed to this world (this age), [fashioned after and adapted to its external, superficial customs], but be transformed (changed) by the [entire] renewal of your mind [by its new ideals and its new attitude], so that you may prove [for yourselves] what is the good and acceptable and perfect will of God, even the thing which is good and acceptable and perfect [in His sight for you].

I understand am here for a reason and that reason might just not be disobeying state laws.

What about the truth? The truth Christ

what happens to the truth which is the whole written word?[
Rightly divide it and you would understand everything that happened in the Old Testament was pointing to Christ. The journey of the Jews will continue after the church cos the church won't be here during tribulation. Christ is coming twice, first for the church and a second coming for the Jews. Therefore. Bother yourself more with the church instead of the Jews cos you are not 1(so I think sha)