Enigma:

^^^ The link is a page on Nairaland, where I went on at length about the Trinity; I would rather not repeat myself here. If you don't want to look at it, I will be happy to leave things as they are now.

The doctrine of the Trinity as official and standard Christian doctrine until the Nicene council.  I really don't think that this is in doubt by anyone.

I also visited the link you provided and this is what I saw among other things:

Enigma:

^^^

Actually, whether or not Constantine was a Christian or made Christianity state religion is not exactly relevant to the key point being made here. The key point being made, as I understand that you acknowledge, is that the Trinity doctrine well predated Constantine and the Nicene Council.

As to why the Trinity doctrine was favoured, the question to ask is this: Does the Bible lead to the conclusion that each of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit is God? If the answer is yes and if one believes that God is One, then accepting a doctrine of Trinity becomes inevitable. The question then is what are the details of that doctrine of Trinity?

Let me state here that I don't believe anyone is damned for not believing in the Trinity per se. If defective doctrine is what damns one, all of us have had it!

Having said that: I am very careful about using the word "manifestation" because of its potential interpretation (or misinterpretation, I suppose) as advocating the Oneness/Sabellian doctrine.

And this is why questions like the one below will continue to agitate the minds of people until the end of time.  Personally, I am yet to come across a convincing answer to this agitation.

Excelboi:

I dont knnow what is wrong with christians as they fail to realise the truth. How can jesus be son of God and also God? Hu? This argument will keep on till they realise. Okay, mary gave birth to Jesus, is it God who impregnated Mary, and how can someone born on man be also referred to as God(jesus)? Someone pls get me clear

who is confusing who now, i bet dat badt guy(devil) is somewhere laughn now, mehn am going back 2 my bible
Deception is flowing thru ur veinz here.

Jesus is God made manifest to man.

The trinity includes God the father, God the son and God the Holy Spirit.
An analogy is
Just as man has a body,soul,spirit.

In the beginning it was recorded. . . Let US make man in our own image'

If i ask a question now- that what is God doing right now?

1 million and 1 people will tell me different things, and each person will want to convince me that he or she is right. But that doesn't change the fact that God is somewhere doing something whether some choose to believe or not. So if God had actually conceived Jesus himself, do He need to explain the rational behind it to man? Do God need to take an excuse of doing things the way He likes from the people He created? So the moment you begin to asked yourself that Can God do this, or it's not possible for God to do that, that moment you have limited God, because why and how the earth is being suspended in the Galaxy nobody knows till tomorrow. The Origin and age of the sun is not know by man but he only speculates so if in our limitation do not have answer to those, then how God gave birth to Jesus is not an issue for man to negotiate, because he will never find an answer until He meets with his creator. But it is better to believe it until you meet with Him because there will certainly be no second chance

ola_pluto:

The Jesus most christians call on is the Jesus they have moulded. The Jesus Paul told them to worship. Completely twisting the teachings and sayings of Jesus. So much so that Paul had to say you must believe in his trinity doctrine to be a follower of his new found Jesus. Jesus NEVER mentioned Trinity. It is Paul who conjured such nonsense. Perhaps if christians started opening their heads and minds, they will reason as to why Paul's teachings and letters have formed the basis of most of their believe rather than words of Jesus himself.

Can you see that you are contradicting yourself or someone is doing that.

How do you know Paul exist?
Why did you believe that Paul exist and his word didn't exist?
What will Paul stand to gain if he told a lie against the person he saw?
Why was his narration about the person he professed was not different from those that moved with him, even when he was not near or close to him and there was no proper documentation then?

Thelstan:

Quote from: brainpulse on Today at 11:53:08 AM
Histories can be changed by man, but the facts behind the histories can never be change.-Anonymous

One man can tell a lie about his history, but can not fool his household about his history.-Anonymous

History is tricky business because it is written by scholars paid by the victorious side of a conflict.

History can be changed, but the fact behind it can never be changed.

Why Is Jesus The Son Of God?

I want to give Christianity a chance and with an open mind, i ask how do we know Jesus is the Son of God?

Quite simple really. God could not have come to have sex with a woman so as to bring forth JESUS, because He is a SPIRIT. And spirits don't function like us. But He really needed to bring forth a HUMAN to deliver us Humans. So what did HE do? He sent WORDS! through the angel Gabriel.  As found in Luke 1: 26-35

26  And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

. GOD IS KNOWN TO CREATE THINGS WITH HIS WORD - Gen 1:3

And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

MY HONEST SUBMISSION: MAN CANNOT REVEAL GOD TO MAN, ONLY GOD CAN REVEAL HIMSELF TO MAN. So dear poster, ask GOD to show you the truth. I can bet my life on it the He'd do it!

islamrules (m)« #27 on: Today at 11:12:12 AM »  

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But this is logical. Joseph didnt touch marry. And holy angels claims the pregnancy is from heaven. From God. Jesus has no earthly father. So, God is his father. Why cant you read and understand simple logic? Or you are just a bigot.
There is nothing you can do to anti-christ. No matter if they know the truth, they will still deny it.

What is hard to understand there? Is anybody saying God slept with Mary ? No, but your mud brain wont understand simple things.

If your logic is anything to go by, then ADAM is a superior son of God and in fact a GREATER GOD. When will you realise that whenever God intends that a thing should be He only need to say "Be and IT WILL".

I has a simple questions (pardon my deplorable Inglish). If God was in the business of having Children, why did he stop at one?

-Excuse me, who is the would-be heavenly mummy?

- If you want me to believe that God has a son, then I may be tempted to believe he has a daughter. So where has this would-be daughter been hiding?

Are you suggesting that God partakes in sexual activity with all of this your "Jesus is the son of God" mantra?

omo alaro:

islamrules (m)« #27 on: Today at 11:12:12 AM »  

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If your logic is anything to go by, then ADAM is a superior son of God and in fact a GREATER GOD. When will you realise that whenever God intends that a thing should be He only need to say "Be and IT WILL".

Yes you got it right, but Adam fell, lost his position as god, then God that created Adam had to seek a better way to replace the relationhip and position of man then, ,

@Omo_alaro,

If your logic is anything to go by, then ADAM is a superior son of God and in fact a GREATER GOD. When will you realise that whenever God intends that a thing should be He only need to say "Be and IT WILL".

Adams creation was explained by God that he and the angels (including satan) used soil and other things.

Jesus's anatomy was never mentioned by God to anyone. So case closed.

Go ask God. Before you can ask. You need to die.

Are u ready for answer ? Here you gooooooooooooooooo Gbam!

maclatunji:

I has a simple questions (pardon my deplorable Inglish). If God was in the business of having Children, why did he stop at one?

-Excuse me, who is the would-be heavenly mummy?

- If you want me to believe that God has a son, then I may be tempted to believe he has a daughter. So where has this would-be daughter been hiding?

Are you suggesting that God partakes in intimate activity with all of this your "Jesus is the son of God" mantra?

He had to do that for a purpose and when the purpose was accomplished He said "Its finished"

Did God participate in any intimacy to create man, or all the animals? Did God calculate centre of gravity for man to stay glue to the world? Did you have to participate in intimacy to create ideas? You are reffering to God, that can create anything form nothing. If you dont know Him you can only Limit him.

Jesus is not son of god, like so many beliefs in the christian religion the idea was taken from the Greek history where one of the gods zues impregnated a human and gave birth to Hercules, another is the celebration of Christmas, that also is borrowed from the pagans when the dry season come in and the leaves of plants start to die around the December period this pagans bring in a plant into their home so as to preserve the life of the plant as long as they possibly can like the Christians do at Christmas now, and its a known fact that Jesus was not born in December but rather sometime in the middle of the year.

Isaak newton who is about the worlds most revered scientist and philosopher who believed in biblical prophecies also believes, worshipping Christ as God was idolatry, to him the fundamental sin'.

almost every thing in Christianity is borrowed, the cross (pagan worship), Christmas, and zues like god. look into it.

someone wrote begotten earlier, can you please tell me what that means?

Do any man knows the road he will take to heaven or anywhere where he dies?
Who will direct man where to go when he dies?
What principle or theory can prove where man will go? Except lies

I believe there are a lot of question Man will ask God.

Christians burrowed so many things just like muslims did.

E.g Genesis/creation was written by the Jews, mohammed came and photocopied it. He didnt offer a different explanation. Why on earth did mohammad not give his own theory of creation.

Mohammed claimed earth is flat, but earth is a sperical ball (flaws inherited from the bible).

He read the bible and tweak it on most occassion. He removed/countered those part that doesnt favors arab culture.

ARabs were worshipping Bin-ahl, god of the moon and the stars. Mohammed came and merge them together and call them allah.

Can you see their see their symbol ? (*

DivideUs:

Jesus is not son of god, like so many beliefs in the christian religion the idea was taken from the Greek history where one of the gods zues impregnated a human and gave birth to Hercules, another is the celebration of Christmas, that also is borrowed from the pagans when the dry season come in and the leaves of plants start to die around the December period this pagans bring in a plant into their home so as to preserve the life of the plant as long as they possibly can like the Christians do at Christmas now, and its a known fact that Jesus was not born in December but rather sometime in the middle of the year.

Isaak newton who is about the worlds most revered scientist and philosopher who believed in biblical prophecies also believes, worshipping Christ as God was idolatry, to him the fundamental sin'.

almost every thing in Christianity is borrowed, the cross (pagan worship), Christmas, and zues like god. look into it.

someone wrote begotten earlier, can you please tell me what that means?

Isaac Newton was not born when Jesus was alive and he had the same believes as you are doing now so no difference.
I told you that HIstory can be changed but the facts behind history can never be changed. The word christian appeared first in the bible and it was because of the people that lived around Jesus saw that after His resurrection there were some people behaving and doing things like him, they were astonished and began to term them as "Christ like" that is christians.
SO  were did zues came from and hercules, where did he go, pls needs some answer?

maclatunji:

I has a simple questions (pardon my deplorable Inglish). If God was in the business of having Children, why did he stop at one?

-Excuse me, who is the would-be heavenly mummy?

- If you want me to believe that God has a son, then I may be tempted to believe he has a daughter. So where has this would-be daughter been hiding?

Are you suggesting that God partakes in intimate activity with all of this your "Jesus is the son of God" mantra?

A bros enters a thread and asks questions and you come-up with these as responses.

brainpulse:

He had to do that for a purpose and when the purpose was accomplished He said "Its finished" . What did he do that he now said it is finished? Does this read sensible to you?
Did God participate in any intimacy to create man, or all the animals? Did God calculate centre of gravity for man to stay glue to the world? Did you have to participate in intimacy to create ideas? You are reffering to God, that can create anything form nothing. If you dont know Him you can only Limit him.

So you knew that and are now claiming that one of those creatures is a son of God. Even when sensible people are telling you that you are yarning rubbish; you still insist! The nature of God is very fundamental and he has not left it in doubt (You wanna know where? Read Qur'an Chapter 112). The Greek Mythologists have a better storyline than you guys. Their format and package is more believeable even if it is still based on their wild imaginations.

Explain in simple language what you are saying so that we can give you a nice KNOCK-OUT E-PUNCH!

If Mohammed (SAW) was born several years after the resuurection of Jesus CHrist, and part of those things he wrote where inside the bible that existed before he was born. Then why did he had to beleive some part and left the others.
Then there most be a motive or some one twisted the truth for alot of reasons. I can not meet a chemistry textbook created by Ababio, reproduce my own and say mine is the original.

http://www.allabouttruth.org/history-of-the-holy-bible-faq.htm

^yes u can if you corrected some flaws, and by the way Mohammed (saw) never claimed to have writen the book, it was reveled to him.

As for the Jewish and christain beliefs, Islam only corrects the wrong part of the doctrine as we belive in both Moses and Jesus ok

One of those stupid religious arguments that leads nowhere.

****hisses*** and***exits***thread*****

^yes u can if you corrected some flaws, and by the way Mohammed (saw) never claimed to have writen the book, it was reveled to him.

As for the Jewish and christain beliefs, Islam only corrects the wrong part of the doctrine as we belive in both Moses and Jesus ok

Despite his corrections, he still inherited flaws in the bible. I though you muslims claimed Christians/Jews are not serving God ?
So why the sudden believe in the God of Christian. You claimed bible is a book of lies, yet, you copied it to produce your own. Scam and Plagiarism.
You didnt append reference to quran. Every books has reference, even Jesus words where with reference. He alsways referes to Isaiah.

You are lost people by a selfish and desperate power monger who is not a prophet of God, but want arabs, his family to rule the earth, just like Roman Empire did.

Let me tell you the truth. He saw that Romans empire used Christianity to rule and enslave the earth. He too came up with one so that arabs can be powerful too.

Its all scam!

DivideUs:

^yes u can if you corrected some flaws, and by the way Mohammed (saw) never claimed to have writen the book, it was reveled to him.

As for the Jewish and christain beliefs, Islam only corrects the wrong part of the doctrine as we belive in both Moses and Jesus ok

why is it only the flaws you went for, because you have a motive. And the same flaws where only flaws to him without insight to what it really meant. He choose to pick some he could change and left the other. Who was there with him when he claimed it was revealed to him" only him" and no one was there with only the animal that could not speak.

DivideUs:

^yes u can if you corrected some flaws, and by the way Mohammed (saw) never claimed to have writen the book, it was reveled to him.

As for the Jewish and christain beliefs, Islam only corrects the wrong part of the doctrine as we belive in both Moses and Jesus ok

No you don't believe in Him, you only read and know about some things about him.
This is to believe in something.

You accept that that thing exists, you work in that thing, and take that thing as the only true thing. that is believe

What all religionist needs to understand is. Not all religions are perfect.

Quran has its own flaws, the bible, Christian doctrine, Islam doctine, arab culture.

We should stop asking the question of is allah god ? or jesus son of god?

We should move farward, accept which one suits u out of the two and the world will know peace.

You will see muslims trying to claim superior whereas its only that Christians dont like formenting trouble.

islamrules:

What all religionist needs to understand is. Not all religions are perfect.

Quran has its own flaws, the bible, Christian doctrine, Islam doctine, arab culture.

We should stop asking the question of is allah god ? or jesus son of god?

We should move farward, accept which one suits u out of the two and the world will know peace.

You will see muslims trying to claim superior whereas its only that Christians dont like formenting trouble.

Open another thread for your postulations. We are here to thrash-out the issue. Is Jesus the son of God?

It is obvious that the claim is not defendable from whatever angle we look at it. And that my people shows that the principles upon which a large chunk of human beings live are a fraud!

maclatunji:

Open another thread for your postulations. We are here to thrash-out the issue. Is Jesus the son of God?

It is obvious that the claim is not defendable from whatever angle we look at it. And that my people shows that the principles upon which a large chunk of human beings live are a fraud!

You have not shown any prove to disclaim such

Open another thread for your postulations. We are here to thrash-out the issue. Is Jesus the son of God?

It is obvious that the claim is not defendable from whatever angle we look at it. And that my people shows that the principles upon which a large chunk of human beings live are a fraud!

You are asking a rhetoric question, as you will need to die to get the answer.

Fraud? That can be viewed or addressed by what u believe. If you believe there is no God, somebody who believes there is God is like a fraudster to you.

You cant question what I beleive or what the bible says. If you open this thread 20 millions time on Nairaland, Christians wont because of that convert, because they understand what they believe.

Why not try christianity to get answer or die to go and ask God directly. And stop asking questions at a far distance. I have tried Islam, and I saw so many things. So nobody can bambose me with lies in the quran. Try christianity for answers.

There are so many shady statements without thorough explanations in the bible. You dont because of that Claim God is a lair. U wait till u get your answer.

I bet you with my belt that you wont get anwser to this question of yours. Even if u get, u will still discredit it.

There have been so many explanation on this post, yet you didnt want them. You simply dont want any answer, but to discredit other peoples believes.

That is what we call "Bigotry" A bigot

brainpulse:

You have not shown any prove to disclaim such

Of course you will not accept that. It is not everybody that reads this thread that will send brainpulse a mail on what they think of the topic and the responses to it. Let us put it this way: Some people's pastors will be finding it difficult to answer some questions members of their flock will be asking them after going through this thread! For you to be a true believer, you have to question and querry your beliefs and the structures upon wish they are based. It is the outcome of this process that makes one a firm and resolute believer once those beliefs have passed the test.  This issue of trinity can never pass that test! You should stop holding-on to a position for the sake of it.

It is obvious that you have not reached the level of being able to do that yet!

Mmmm

brainpulse:

You have not shown any prove to disclaim such

on the contrary, you not able to prove that he is,  is his proof. You should be able to sell ur product

http://debate.org.uk/topics/history/debate/part1.htm

Second link i am sending