Kay 17:

If the bible says Jesus is the Son of God, how well can we trust the Bible?

1.Even the Qur'an attest to the divinity, ie virgin birth of Jesus.

2. Are you putting it beyond God's power to have a son without a Mrs?

3. While on earth, Jesus demonstrated clearly his divine life

4. Billions of attempts like this have been made in the past to wipe out the sonship of Jesus, but it keep waxing stronger

5. We dont have to defend, prove anything about Jesus, He is His own proof. That it bothers you is enough for me

Q) Can a virgin today get pregnant and give birth without sex?

Ans) Yes she can with In vitro fertilisation (IVF).

IF one is religious and thus believes in a higher being that is supreme with knowledge surpassing mankind, then surely such a supreme being should be capable of synthesising a human fertilised egg and implanting it into a human being.

Now to the question at hand.

It is probably difficult with modern science and knowledge to prove Jesus is the son of God. Other than written documents and other information passed down the centuries and the Faith of believers there is no sure way. We live by Faith and not by Sight.

The only way to know "for sure" as far as I can tell is currently to ask the question again in the "afterlife".

If you die and there is no "afterlife" for you then the question becomes irrelevant for you.

The koran simply subscribed to the bible, cos it came later than the bible. So how do we know the Bible is not lying or its not simply the view of some ancient men

cultey:

@VoodooDoll

Please just as there is after life, there is after death.

Anybody waiting to ask that question when they crossover,

And has not received CHRIST, will waste away in hell, and remember, there is no repentance in the grave!

Besides when you crossover, there'll be no need to ask that question,

Because that's the first thing you'll realise wherever you end up (i.e. either heaven or hell) and I pray it's heaven!

" There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out. "

Well, disbelievers may get their answer then. Though their souls may be lost for all eternity at that time.

^^^ Jesus is not only the Son of God; He is God.

Enigma is very right because he has spoken the Truth to which thousands of millions people and especially so-called Christians are blinded to and ignorant of. For more eye-opener on the Truth of Jesus Christ being the VERY GOD, read the following links:

1. http://www.thepathoftruth.com/teachings/jesusisgod/index.htm
2. http://www.thepathoftruth.com/falsehoodexposed/gotquestions_trinity.htm
3. http://www.thepathoftruth.com/teachings/jesusisgod/jesuschristalmightygod.htm
4. http://www.thepathoftruth.com/issuesoflife/whodomensaythatiam.htm

[b]
if you review my thread :"Can God Have A Son?" properly, you will definitely see that the question is not whether or not Jesus is a "son of God".the question has to do whether or not he is "the only begotten son of God"."begotten" means "not made/created".this word "begotten" sends a literal meaning and not a figurative one.it would mean that Jesus is God's son like you are your father's and mother's son and i am also.

if we are talking in the figurative sense that all of us are figuratively "sons" of God,then that is understandable even though we muslims prefer not to use the word "son" even in the figurative sense to describe ourselves in relation to almighty God.actually this word "son" is avoided altogether by muslims in describing themselves as "sons of God" because the christians and trinitarians particularly who have given God a literal son (Jesus) who is said to have been "begotten" and "not made" have made the figurative expression of "son of God" infamous in the eyes of muslims.

now going into the bible itself we find many sons of God in the figurative sense.and in the new testament itself too,we read the figurative meaning of "son of God":

"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God".(Roman 8:14)

when examining the bible closely,we also see that in fact Jesus is not a "begotten son of God" as the christians want us to believe and try to project a literal meaning.the word "begotten" is an interpolation.it is a word added by bible authors and editors to serve their doctrines that make Jesus divine.it is unfortunate that christians do not follow what the bible teaches but the bible has to follow what christians believe.these bible authors and editors backed by doctors in religion have dropped the word "begotten" from the bible when they published the Revised Standard Version of the King James Bible.so as we can see,the literal meaning of the term "son of God" refering to Jesus,who is said to have being "begotten" is not supported in the bible at all.it is supported in the councils of nicea and in the minds of christians that smuggled it into the bible and added the word "begotten".the word "begotten" as i tried to explain is an interpolation.it is not found in the bible at all when bible manuscripts are examined.the RSV has dropped the word.as for the other versions of the bible that maintain the word "begotten",they continue to deceive their followers that Jesus is a "sepcial son of God" and not a figurative one but a literal one.

you can further review my thread:"Can God Have A Son?":

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-811919.0.html[/b]

@ Lagosshia -

My answer to you:

Luke 13:28

" There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out. "

Your purpose of starting this thread is to "espouse" your beliefs. You are aware of the bible and christianity but hold fast to your belief. Good luck to you.

Make una fear God o. Asking questions way beyond your spiritual grade

It is absolutely a total waste of time to try to explain or convince anyone on the sonship of Jesus Christ. All they want is arguements and not ready to find out what the truth really is, they are firm and cannot be changed about their beliefs but don't blame them, the bible says the god of this world has blinded their eyes. So, really you should be concerned and show on pity them.

LagosShia:

[b]
if you review my thread :"Can God Have A Son?" properly, you will definitely see that the question is not whether or not Jesus is a "son of God".the question has to do whether or not he is "the only begotten son of God"."begotten" means "not made/created".this word "begotten" sends a literal meaning and not a figurative one.it would mean that Jesus is God's son like you are your father's and mother's son and i am also.

if we are talking in the figurative sense that all of us are figuratively "sons" of God,then that is understandable even though we muslims prefer not to use the word "son" even in the figurative sense to describe ourselves in relation to almighty God.actually this word "son" is avoided altogether by muslims in describing themselves as "sons of God" because the christians and trinitarians particularly who have given God a literal son (Jesus) who is said to have been "begotten" and "not made" have made the figurative expression of "son of God" infamous in the eyes of muslims.

now going into the bible itself we find many sons of God in the figurative sense.and in the new testament itself too,we read the figurative meaning of "son of God":

"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God".(Roman 8:14)

when examining the bible closely,we also see that in fact Jesus is not a "begotten son of God" as the christians want us to believe and try to project a literal meaning.the word "begotten" is an interpolation.it is a word added by bible authors and editors to serve their doctrines that make Jesus divine.it is unfortunate that christians do not follow what the bible teaches but the bible has to follow what christians believe.these bible authors and editors backed by doctors in religion have dropped the word "begotten" from the bible when they published the Revised Standard Version of the King James Bible.so as we can see,the literal meaning of the term "son of God" refering to Jesus,who is said to have being "begotten" is not supported in the bible at all.it is supported in the councils of nicea and in the minds of christians that smuggled it into the bible and added the word "begotten".the word "begotten" as i tried to explain is an interpolation.it is not found in the bible at all when bible manuscripts are examined.the RSV has dropped the word.as for the other versions of the bible that maintain the word "begotten",they continue to deceive their followers that Jesus is a "sepcial son of God" and not a figurative one but a literal one.

you can further review my thread:"Can God Have A Son?":

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-811919.0.html[/b]

What gave you an indication that you are correct with your interpolation? Even the greatest of all profs have investigated the spiritual Nd misery things of God and yet not gotten it right so you have not added to wisdom but only twisted yours.

This thread has put some people in a squeeze- rightfully so!

If u Christians tell me that all fellowers of God and teachings of the prophet including Jesus Christ PBUH I will agree with reasons but if u tell me he is the only BEGOTTEN son of God I deffer. That's the controversy in the Bible

Just watch 'who wrote the bible', a film made by a christian theologian Robert Beckford. Its available online although some people edit it so that you would miss some of the juicy parts. There it clearly states that the bible was made and influenced by men, and most of the time they were not under the spell of some unknown 'holy spirit' but under the control of some powerful emotion or leaders. Someone highlighted the council of Nicaea 300 years after christ where he was eventually upgraded to GOD. Its true and the reason for that was to destroy the holy christian faith. You see the leader then (very powerful, cant remember his name) saw the potential of christianity and sought to use that potential to his benefit, thus becoming a christian. He sanctioned the council and made sure that he transformed christ into the image of the GOD he wanted to follow, just like the ancients had done with all of GOD's prophets messages and books of the past, thereby corrupting the pure religion of GOD. Thats why books that were seen to describe christ as less than GOD were excluded from the canon and even made heresy. Even christ's brothers never refered to him as GOD by our good teacher, you just need to research it to find out the truth. Thats the reason why GOD had to send the FINAL prophet to correct all the wrongs inputed in the Bible by those corrupted scribes. The problem is that most christians don't know any more than their pastor tells them, and any time there's something they face thats beyond comprehension, they just claim that its a lack of the holy ghost. For me, its just a lack of conviction to see beyond the human desires, because I know every christian has felt at one point or the other that  there's something wrong with whats he's practicing but the lack of conviction to do what is right keeps them rooted to their misguided ways. There's some right in the bible, but the wrong far outweighs the right.

^^ Talk of Jesus being "upgraded to god" is the talk of fools and of deliberate liars and twisters.

Even God the Father referred to Jesus the Son as God ----- looooong before the Council of Nicaea.


Hebrews 1:8

But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.

Justin Martyr

For this they accuse us of madness, saying that we attribute to a crucified man a place second to the unchangeable and eternal God, the Creator of all things; but they are ignorant of the mystery which lies therein.

For Scripture as much announces Christ as also God, as it announces God himself as man. It has as much described Jesus Christ to be man, as moreover it has also described Christ the Lord to be God. Because it does not set forth him to be the Son of God only, but also the son of man; nor does it only say, the son of man, but it has also been accustomed to speak of him as the Son of God. So that being of both, he is both, lest if he should be one only, he could not be the other. For as nature itself has prescribed that he must be believed to be a man who is of man, so the same nature prescribes also that he must be believed to be God who is of God…. Let them, therefore, who read that Jesus Christ the son of man is man, read also that this same Jesus is called also God and the Son of God.

Novatian

@ Snakova

If you are going to reference the Nicae council get it right.

The Holy Bible was written by men - no dispute there. We don't claim it magically appeared to an illiterate like some other religions.

The Bible is an account of historical facts written by scholars who witnessed these facts. There are many accounts in both the old testament and the new testament, predating Nicae in which Jesus is referred to as Son of God.

The Nicae council was not about editing or changing the words in the books that make up the Bible but about making sure "corrupting heretical statements" like the ones being made here by yourself (Snakova) and Lagosshia which will lead to hell fire being exposed for what they are.

If you are going to reference Nicae, get it right.

snakova:

Just watch 'who wrote the bible', a film made by a christian theologian Robert Beckford. Its available online although some people edit it so that you would miss some of the juicy parts. There it clearly states that the bible was made and influenced by men, and most of the time they were not under the spell of some unknown 'holy spirit' but under the control of some powerful emotion or leaders. Someone highlighted the council of Nicaea 300 years after christ where he was eventually upgraded to GOD. Its true and the reason for that was to destroy the holy christian faith. You see the leader then (very powerful, cant remember his name) saw the potential of christianity and sought to use that potential to his benefit, thus becoming a christian. He sanctioned the council and made sure that he transformed christ into the image of the GOD he wanted to follow, just like the ancients had done with all of GOD's prophets messages and books of the past, thereby corrupting the pure religion of GOD. Thats why books that were seen to describe christ as less than GOD were excluded from the canon and even made heresy. Even christ's brothers never refered to him as GOD by our good teacher, you just need to research it to find out the truth. Thats the reason why GOD had to send the FINAL prophet to correct all the wrongs inputed in the Bible by those corrupted scribes. The problem is that most christians don't know any more than their pastor tells them, and any time there's something they face thats beyond comprehension, they just claim that its a lack of the holy ghost. For me, its just a lack of conviction to see beyond the human desires, because I know every christian has felt at one point or the other that  there's something wrong with whats he's practicing but the lack of conviction to do what is right keeps them rooted to their misguided ways. There's some right in the bible, but the wrong far outweighs the right.

So if you believe that some people wrote the bible, and the bible was wrong. Then why should you believe a man that says it drop from heaven and had no prove, nobody was there at all. Dont you see it that it is based on lies and lies.

Enigma:

^^ Talk of Jesus being "upgraded to god" is the talk of fools and of deliberate liars and twisters.

Even God the Father referred to Jesus the Son as God ----- looooong before the Council of Nicaea.


Hebrews 1:8
But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.

GBAM!

@ Snakova

If you don't know, recently there were discoveries of the original manuscript of John by the archaeologist dated back to thousands of years. and the accounts where very through and detailed. And thousands of discoveries at the new work museum points to the fact that surely it cant be far from truth. Simply you took the portion of the bible that suits you and you disapproved the other. why cant you disapproved everything? Your Mohammed said yes Jesus was real and born of Mary without natural conception, he went around healing, but when it came to the point of being God, he said he was telling lies because Mohammed never and can not understand the misery behind it. And since he wanted his own religion by force he came up with some twist he couldn't explain and had his followers receive it by force. No need to accept any portion of the bible since you don't not believe in the message. And never call Jesus a prophet because Mohammed never saw him and know him, he only read about him. Mohammed had no prove that the quaran came from heaven, why can't you ask you teachers what is the prove that quaran came down from heaven and no one saw him when he was receiving it.

VoodooDoll:

@ Snakova

If you are going to reference the Nicae council get it right.

The Holy Bible was written by men - no dispute there.  We don't claim it magically appeared to an illiterate like some other religions.

The Bible is an account of historical facts written by scholars who witnessed these facts[b][/b]. [font=Lucida Sans Unicode].There are many accounts in both the old testament and the new testament, predating Nicae in which Jesus is referred to as Son of God. The Nicae council was not about editing or changing the words in the books that make up the Bible but about making sure "corrupting heretical statements" like the ones being made here by yourself (Snakova) and Lagosshia which will lead to hell fire being exposed for what they are.

If you are going to reference Nicae, get it right.

In red,its not an account of historical facts or witnessed facts because even the gospel authors (james, john, peter, forgot the last) never met christ. Its just stories and hearsay. In green, many have been referred to as children of God in the bible by christ himself so you can't use that as justification because christ himself made no difference between him as a son and others as children. In the end, many of the books have been edited to suit the agenda pushed forward by the scribes or king so a lot of what you read is well edited propaganda. Just watch the movie, I am sure some of your bigotry would be eroded instantly.

^^^Pls read and your bigotry will be healed

http://www.givingananswer.org/articles/koran.html

Enigma:

^^ Talk of Jesus being "upgraded to god" is the talk of fools and of deliberate liars and twisters.

Even God the Father referred to Jesus the Son as God ----- looooong before the Council of Nicaea.


Hebrews 1:8

Thats why it was included in the canon at the council, slowpoke. Those that said otherwise were excluded because thats what the king wanted.

brainpulse:

@ Snakova

If you don't know, recently there were discoveries of the original manuscript of John by the archaeologist dated back to thousands of years. and the accounts where very through and detailed. And thousands of discoveries at the new work museum points to the fact that surely it cant be far from truth. Simply you took the portion of the bible that suits you and you disapproved the other. why cant you disapproved everything? Your Mohammed said yes Jesus was real and born of Mary without natural conception, he went around healing, but when it came to the point of being God, he said he was telling lies because Mohammed never and can not understand the misery behind it. And since he wanted his own religion by force he came up with some twist he couldn't explain and had his followers receive it by force. No need to accept any portion of the bible since you don't not believe in the message. And never call Jesus a prophet because Mohammed never saw him and know him, he only read about him. Mohammed had no prove that the quaran came from heaven, why can't you ask you teachers what is the prove that quaran came down from heaven and no one saw him when he was receiving it.

At least its proven that the bible is a masterpiece best selling edited piece of work, but not the infallible word of GOD. Why not try out the Koran? You may just be captivated by its solutions driven psyche. Try and read 'Quran, the mathematical miracle' by Ahmed Deedat, and a host of other works by Ahmed Deedat. If you sincerely seek GOD's truth, I don't doubt that you would find it. The koran challenges its detractors to find faults in it but they have failed over the ages. Try your luck, maybe you would be guided by such. poor soul. And about your archeological 'discoveries' just watch the movie "WHO WROTE THE BIBLE' BY ROBERT BECKFORD, an Academic Theologian.

^^^Pls read and your bigotry will be healed

http://www.givingananswer.org/articles/koran.html

snakova:

Emboldened, not God but the son, understand.At least its proven that the bible is a masterpiece best selling edited piece of work, but not the infallible word of GOD. Why not try out the Koran? You may just be captivated by its solutions driven psyche. Try and read 'Quran, the mathematical miracle' by Ahmed Deedat, and a host of other works by Ahmed Deedat. If you sincerely seek GOD's truth, I don't doubt that you would find it. The koran challenges its detractors to find faults in it but they have failed over the ages. Try your luck, maybe you would be guided by such. poor soul. And about your archeological 'discoveries' just watch the movie "WHO WROTE THE BIBLE' BY ROBERT BECKFORD, and Academic Theologian.

If you are an academician you will understand that before you can disapprove somebody's work you have to come out with provened facts and figures which Robert Beckford and Mohammed did not do. This is just naratioin of his journey to discredit a work without justification against a yardstick.

Try harder to look at the links i provided

brainpulse:

If you are an academician you will understand that before you can disapprove somebody's work you have to come out with provened [b]facts[/b] and figures which Robert Beckford and Mohammed did not do. This is just naratioin of his journey to discredit a work without justification against a yardstick.

Try harder to look at the links i provided

In green, facts like some verses of the bible that were later introduced by unknown sources abi Look, there was a time when the bible looked fashionable i.e. before I became an adult. Since after coming of age and looking at the facts on ground, it was a lot easier to embrace the koran than the bible because, among other things, at least the koran is unchanged from the individual that claimed it was revealed to him by GOD, but the bible is just an account of the life of the individual who only claimed to be the son of GOD years after his demise by authors who never met the guy, processed after 300 years by other dudes with shady intentions, and sanctioned by a newly 'converted' king. The choice is easy. I don't have to decieve myself that 3 is 1, or that GOD can split himself and watch while he is tortured by his puny creation so that he can forgive them their sins, or that I can eat GOD and drink his blood, or that only some 'holy spirit' can give me understanding, or that babies are born of sin, and so on.

By believing He is. Just believe

The challenge in convincing a christian is FAITH. Any form of rational perception is forbidden, even in trying to understand the bible. Christians are simply deluded and fail to acknowledge the truth even while it's right in their faces.