brainpulse:

^^^Pls read and your bigotry will be healed

http://www.givingananswer.org/articles/koran.html

hehehe. a lot of crap. Using one man's work and his error's as justification. when i have the time i would break down your confidence

Even if i know nothing about Jesus christ and Mohammed, christianity and Islam, this is what i see: Islam cannot be the true way 'cos its self contradictory. They claimed its 'religion of peace' yet the terrorists and gboko harams claimed they are acting out d quran. The muslims are mostly belligerent, stern looking and unfriendly, the mildest of them practise mild jihad, its only the nominal ones that are somewhat friendly. So, i know God cannot support what the muslims stand for, Gbam!

This is like asking how did you know you are the son of your parents. They told you, your parents, family members, witnesses and so on, and you believed. I should ask if you have doubted yourself being the son of your parents or doubted anyone who says he is the son of his own parent. So why doubt this?

sampeter:

Even if i know nothing about Jesus christ and Mohammed, christianity and Islam, this is what i see: Islam cannot be the true way 'cos its self contradictory. They claimed its 'religion of peace' yet the terrorists and gboko harams claimed they are acting out d quran. The muslims are mostly belligerent, stern looking and unfriendly, the mildest of them practise mild jihad, its only the nominal ones that are somewhat friendly. So, i know God cannot support what the muslims stand for, Gbam!  

           What did the crusaders claim to be their inspiration "God wills it" they kept chanting. You always claim the muslim GOD needs his believers to fight for him. why didn't the GOD of the christian crusaders fight for them? Why did they have to wage war upon war and massacre thousands of muslims in Jerusalem?
           
           What is mild jihad? I am pretty sure you don't even know what the arabic term 'jihad' means. Go to the North, you would find a good number of 'FIERCE' looking christians that are trigger hungry. And you classify Islam based on its adherents. What would you say about the catholics and protestants bent on destroying themselves in Northern Ireland? Does that mean that all christians are intolerant killers? When muslims are slaughtered in palestine and made to live inhuman lives as refugees and beggars, what excuse do the jews use? "It has been ordained in the bible". What sort of text would 'ordain' such inhumanity and still claim divinity? Seek the truth and ye shall find, stop hiding behind lame excuses. Just like someone said "In this Islam no touching girls and frolicking? Its too hard" "as a catholic all I gotta do is have all the fun I need and then go to confession, too easy".

Enigma:

^^ Talk of Jesus being "upgraded to god" is the talk of fools and of deliberate liars and twisters.

Even God the Father referred to Jesus the Son as God ----- looooong before the Council of Nicaea.


Hebrews 1:8

Really people need to set their sights on God and cease to be distracted by imagining any human beings to be God. Such imaginations are not different or superior to the notions of Sat Guru Maharaji, Olumba Olumba Obu, and the like, being the Almighty God.

Let us for once drop these distractions.

______________________________________________________
Monogenēs - Etymology

The term monogenēs is derived from the adjective monos (“single,” “only,” “unique,”) and the verbal substantive genos (“race,” “kind,” “species”). Based on that information it can be suggested that monogenēs means “only one of its kind,” “unique.”1 This has become the most common rendering of the term in English. However, since genos is related to the verb ginomai (“be born,” “be made,” “become”), monogenēs could also mean “only begotten.” The question is whether or not the use of genos always expresses the verbal etymological idea of origin or birth.

Before we arrive at any conclusion we should examine some additional evidence. First, we should acknowledge that there are cases in Greek literature in which monogenēs seems to be connected to the idea of generation. This is particularly the case when the term is applied to humans or to offspring. For instance, in cases where it is stated that someone is the “only” child of a specific couple, monogenēs could mean “only child born to someone.”

- Christ as Monogenēs: Proper Translation and
Theological Significance
Ángel Manuel Rodríguez

____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________

The foregoing is the first part of a Christian attempt to elucidate the term – monogenēs.

What can be directly gleaned from it is that the term means “only one of its kind” – and that since genos is related to the verb ginomai (“be born,” “be made,” “become”), monogenēs could therefore refer to “only begotten.”

THE ARTICLE IS WRITTEN BY A TRINITARIAN, and yet even he could not deny that - "there are cases in Greek literature in which monogenēs seems to be connected to the idea of generation."

Given that the use is obvious, they then have to resort to pranks - The attempt is made to suggest that “only begotten” was no longer the interpretation of this word at the time that the Greek was written. This is a FALSE and FRAUDULENT attempt.

If that is the case it would be eminently bizarre that in ALL of the following scripture the SAME term was used and it ALWAYS referred to humanbeings who were begotten –

- Luke 7: 12 “And when he drew near to the gate of the city, and behold, a dead [man] was being carried out, a monogenes in relation to his mother, and she [was] a widow, and many people of the city [were] with her.”

- Luke 9:38 “And behold, a man from the crowd called out, saying, ‘Teacher, I am begging you to look at my son, because he ismonogenes to me.’ ”

- Luke 8:42 “And behold, [there was] a man who was named Jairus, and he was ruler of the synagogue. And he, having fallen at the feet of Jesus, was exhorting him to enter into his house, because he had a monogenes daughter about twelve years [old], and she was dying.”

- Hebrews 11:17. “In faith, Abraham, when he was tested offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises offered up the monogenes (he) to whom it was said that, ‘In Isaac your seed shall be called.’ ”

If in ALL of the foregoing texts which are ALL New Testament writings in Greek, the same term was used to refer to humans WHO WERE BEGOTTEN BY THEIR PARENTS AND SINGULAR.

So it’s just AMAZING that the Trinitarian would desperately try to give a different colouration to that word once it is applied to Jesus. – because as we can see from the above: the word was used to refer to single BEGOTTEN children.

It is CLEAR that Jesus was begotten and these lies will NOT change the obvious.

Now the clincher is this: God has no beginning. If Jesus, was begotten, then he had a beginning, and as therefore clearly not God.

God is eternal, intangible and transcendent. There is this no human being that can or should be called God.

^^^ In relation to the last two posts, this my post is only for the records and for the benefit of Christians (especially Trinitarians).

The same poster has tried this same tack in the past and was educated with helpful advice.

One of the pieces of advice for the poster was to read up on "consubstantiality" --- starting from his beloved Wikipedia.

All that occurred on this previous thread: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-497445.32.html

I trhink that is as far as I need to bother with the last two posts. 

Addendum: meanwhile as for the credibility of the poster, this is someone who says {"maybe"} the biological father of Jesus Christ was a Roman soldier who "quaffed" Mary his mother!  https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-802388.0.html#msg9546224

Very clever, very "intellectual", very honest!

My friends this topic is not just any common topics. this topic is what the whole world rest upon and only chosen  tested and glorified few are privileged to believe in Him and that is JESUS CHRIST IS THE SON OF GOD, JESUS IS GOD, JESUS IS THE POWER OF GOD, JESUS IS THE SECRET OF GOD, JESUS IS THE COMMANDER IN CHIEF OF ALL POWERS IN HEAVEN, ON EARTH AND BENEATH THE EARTH, JESUS IS THE AUTHORITY OF GOD, Master of everything and kings on every creature. Colo 1 17 Rom 14 -11,  Phill 2-10

Do you believe in the Holy Bible if you do i will point out some passage for you all.
the book of John 1 1-4 it made us to believe that in the beginning was the word with God and that word was God and through him alone all things were created. jesus is that only passage that leads to light from darkness.  Colo 1 13-14  Two kingdoms rules the world ie darkness -devil and light God and when we talk God we mean an entity of God with is Father Son and Holyspirit which is inseparable  just as ice block, ice water and hot water are all water and egg shell, egg yolk and white egg are all egg  the Entity of God is more deeper than that. lets say God Himself ,His word is Jesus and His spirit is holy spirit and there is no way you can separate them They are all present at the same time though they may appear singularly see 1john 5 -7
john 3-16 for God so love the world that he gave his only begotten son……
my br. If you do not believe these then you are already among the ignorant and deceived one read 2chorith 4: 3-4
JESUS IS REAL

Enigma:

Addendum: meanwhile as for the credibility of the poster, this is someone who says {"maybe"} the biological father of Jesus Christ was a Roman soldier who "quaffed" Mary his mother! https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-802388.0.html#msg9546224

Very clever, very "intellectual", very honest!

There is much more that you can source on this forum to dismember any pretences to credibility that I might have, I am sure - but I am equally certain that it is vastly superior to address issues and arguments, and not personalities. It comes across as rather petty, if your best response is always to scamper off to produce some other post which you imagine might be derisory.

Having said that, as far as "intellectual" and "clever" is concerned, I am also certain that you know very well just how clever it sounds to announce belief in pregnancies by the agency of ghosts!

This man sef.

Enigma:


The same poster has tried this same tack in the past and was educated with helpful advice.

One of the pieces of advice for the poster was to read up on "consubstantiality" --- starting from his beloved Wikipedia.

No doubt, Sat Maharaji and Olumba Olumba Obu also have this consubstantiality.

Truth is simple. Lies need to be defended with ever more lies up till the point of absurdity.

Consubstantiality indeed.

You needn't defend your worship of a late Jewish Rabbi. You also needn't defend the blasphemy of rendering same late Jewsih Rabbi as almighty God. There are people who worship stones and dead pieces of wood. You are at least worshipping a human being - so you surely are in much better standing than many.

Again, for the records and just to show that the poster is dishonest in addition of course to the well known shallowness of understanding that he has always displayed as standard, the quote below is from the very article that the poster relies upon in post #165 for his "epiphany" {granted one may question the adequacy of the author's interpretation of "generation"}.

http://biblicalresearch.gc.adventist.org/documents/Christ%20as%20Monogenes.pdf

III. Christological Usages {i.e. of Monogenes}

When the title is applied to Jesus several theological ideas are expressed that help to clarify the meaning of the term. First, He is the monogenēs in the sense that He is divine. This is expressed in John 1:185 where we find the strange phrase, “God the One and Only [monogenēs theos]” applied to Jesus. The idea of generation does not fit the context at all. In this case monogenēs stands in apposition to “God” and serves to shed light on the usage of this term. Although Jesus is human, He is also divine, and consequently He is and has always been “unique;” there has never been anyone like Him in the universe. This phrase summarizes what John has been saying from the beginning of His gospel, namely that the divine Logos became flesh (John 1:1, 14). That explains why Jesus was free to say, “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30).

Second, the title monogenēs is applied to Christ to indicate that He is the only and unique revelator of God: “We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only [monogenēs], who came from the Father, full of grace and truth” (John 1:14). As in the previous passage the title monogenēs is used in the absolute, i.e. the term son is not attached to it. The context indicates that He is unique in that He is the only one who can reveal the glory of God to us. This is possible because He is divine. In other words, the title monogenēs speaks of Jesus as unique in nature and in function. These two ideas are found in John 1:18: “No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father’s side, has made him known.” His divine nature and His closeness to the Father enable Him to be the only and unique revelator of the Father.

Third, the title monogenēs identifies Jesus as the one and only redeemer through whom God’s saving love reaches us: “This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son [monogenēs] into the world that we might live through him” (1 John 4:9). Here we find two terms together, son and monogenēs. In His redemptive mission Jesus demonstrated to be God’s unique and only Son, i.e., to have a unique relationship with God that made possible our redemption. In fact, the Father loved us so much that He “gave his one and only Son” to save those who believe in Him (John 3:16, 18).

When the title monogenēs refers to Jesus it designates the uniqueness of His nature, the uniqueness of His relationship with the Father, His uniqueness as the revelator of God, and His uniqueness as redeemer. There is no other like Him; He is the only one of His kind. The idea of “the only begotten” of the Father does not appear in those passages and is not required in their contexts. They deal with Christ's nature and mission.

It seems that every response these days is only "for the record". . . lol, when will you tire of your cloak and dagger approach to debating any issue. If you are not scampering off to produce irrelevant posts on other subjects, or 'exposing' this or that unsalutary aspect of one's personality, you are certainly not to be seen ever advancing any logical construct whatsoever. For a while I have tarried, in the hope that as time hurries past beneath the bridge, it would bear away with it some of the scarcely veiled bitterness that seems to envelope you for no other reason than the fact that your dogma is shown up as being nothing more elevated than the most puerile pagan fantasy.

Ghosts impregnating women, Jewish men who are almighty God, ritual blood sacrifices for eternal life, and the like. Yuck! - It is not difficult to see just why you would become so touchy and bitter over these things - as it cannot be easy living a whole life saddled with the spectre of a ludicruous worldview hanging over one's head. Do accept my heartfelt sympathies, dear friend.

Now, since everything is not really a response - but merely "for the record", let me clear my throat and regugitate a few things also "for the record"! - - -

The term "Christological Usage" is nothing but the most vacant special pleading. It seeks to assert that the term "Monogenes" as applied to Christ has a different and special meaning than its normal meaning. This is nothing short of hypocrisy, and ordinarily any self-respecting person should be ashamed to peddle such an argument.

Indeed this is the argument advanced in the article I cited, and I did show exactly why it's such an infantile attempt to escape the obvious: namely - the fact that Christ was begotten.

There are four instances of the usage of that exact word in the NT which i cited already - and in every instance it was used with reference to the single begotten child of human parents -

-   Luke 7: 12 “And when he drew near to the gate of the city, and behold, a dead [man] was being carried out, a monogenes in relation to his mother, and she [was] a widow, and many people of the city [were] with her.”

-   Luke 9:38 “And behold, a man from the crowd called out, saying, ‘Teacher, I am begging you to look at my son, because he is monogenes to me.’ ”

-   Luke 8:42 “And behold, [there was] a man who was named Jairus, and he was ruler of the synagogue.  And he, having fallen at the feet of Jesus, was exhorting him to enter into his house, because he had a monogenes daughter about twelve years [old], and she was dying.”

-   Hebrews 11:17. “In faith, Abraham, when he was tested offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises offered up the monogenes (he) to whom it was said that, ‘In Isaac your seed shall be called.’ ”

Thus it is head-splittingly amazing to see Trinitarians argue that the term meant anything else - even introducing a most vacant special pleading to evade the obvious meaning of the term.

There is no reason to suppose that the term means something else when applied to Christ in relation to God - it refers to Christ as the only begottent son of God. I had explained this much already in the prior thread, saying -

Monogenes is a cumulative derivative from the Greek words ‘monos’ and ‘genos’.

The word Monogenes comprises two components as stated above.

Monos (mon'-os) is defined as: sole or single - alone, only.

The Second component is -genos (ghen’-os) which means an offspring or kind. It is translated ‘Born’ in Acts 18:22 and 18:24. It is translated ‘offspring’ in Acts 17:28.

In greek the derivatice root of the term Monogenes is ‘ginomai’ - which is defined as; to cause to be ("gen"-erate or to be born)}, and thus is thus accurately rendered as ‘only begotten’.

As such it is obvious and simple what the term refers to. As I said before, truth is always simple.

It is, on the other hand, always easy to detect a desperate lie - for in seeking to subvert the meaning of the term "monogenes" simply to escape the obvious fact that Christ was begotten, the Trinitarian then resorts to such hocus pocus as "Christological Usage" and "Consubstantiality" - in which it is very obvious to see the desperate and fraudulent weaving which is so irksome.

Friend, if you have an argument to make, make it straight up like a man. Cease these ridiculous references to my famed antecedents, these "only for the record" cop outs and the like. It all simply makes you appear rather effeminate. Grow up.

The fact remains that Christ is begotten - a monogenes of his father - and as such had a beginning. God has no beginning. Period.

@Deepsight:
Thank you.
With regards to this character, You have just said all that has been on my mind . This liitle man has nothing to offer this forum than his juvenile hit and run sniper attacks on individuals rather the issues. He seems to be very bitter , perhaps as a result of the hostage drama his mind is curently enmeshed in.
We should pity him.

Enigma:

Addendum: meanwhile as for the credibility of the poster, this is someone who says {"maybe"} the biological father of Jesus Christ was a Roman soldier who "quaffed" Mary his mother! https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-802388.0.html#msg9546224

Very clever, very "intellectual", very honest!

.

Its cheaper to attack individuals rather than the issues. let me remind of you of a famous saying:
Great men talk about ideas, ordinary men talk about events, and little men spend their time talking about other people.

plaetton:

@Deepsight:
Thank you.
With regards to this character, You have just said all that has been on my mind . This liitle man has nothing to offer this forum than his juvenile hit and run sniper attacks on individuals rather the issues. He seems to be very bitter , perhaps as a result of the hostage drama his mind is curently enmeshed in.
We should pity him.

Pity indeed. The poor fella is saddled with such a terrible weight of bitterness and insecurity which stems from the unfortunate fact that he knows his beliefs are ludicruous.

This is not a problem actually - we all have this or that ludicruous belief. What really is a problem is the malice and petty individual bile that he is able to habour for months and years. Poof!

Posted previously but still one to savour. 

1. Of the Father's heart begotten,
Ere the world began to be,
Called the Alpha and Omega,
Both the source and end is He
Of all things that are,
that ever have been,
And that future years shall see,
Evermore and evermore!

2. O that birth forever blessed!
When the Virgin, full of grace,
By the Holy Ghost conceiving,
Bore the Savior of our race;
And the Babe, the world's Redeemer,
First revealed His sacred face,
Evermore and evermore!

3. O ye heights of Heav'n, adore Him;
Angel hosts, his praises sing;
Pow'rs, dominions, bow before Him,
And extol our God and King;
Let no tongue on earth be silent,
Ev'ry voice in concert ring,
Evermore and evermore!

[flash=400,400]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-XYlu3667s?fs=1&amp;hl=en_GB" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed>[/flash]

Sigh. Doctor's summation: Case is worse than previously thought.

Laffing out loud!

Another one; it is Advent afterall.

Lo He Comes with Clouds Descending (Tune = Helmsley)

Lo! He comes with clouds descending,
Once for favored sinners slain;
Thousand thousand saints attending,
Swell the triumph of His train:
Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah!
God appears on earth to reign.

Every eye shall now behold Him
Robed in dreadful majesty;
Those who set at naught and sold Him,
Pierced and nailed Him to the tree,
Deeply wailing, deeply wailing, deeply wailing,
Shall the true Messiah see.

The dear tokens of His passion
Still His dazzling body bears;
Cause of endless exultation
To His ransomed worshippers;
With what rapture, with what rapture, with what rapture
Gaze we on those glorious scars!

Yea, Amen! let all adore Thee,
High on Thine eternal throne;
Savior, take the power and glory,
Claim the kingdom for Thine own;
O come quickly! O come quickly! O come quickly!
Everlasting God, come down!


[flash=500,400]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjn3fBTvBjY?fs=1&amp;hl=en_GB"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed[/flash]

@Enigma

Forget about deepsight buddy, we'll just ignore his scathing posts and resort to singing hymns to lord jebus.
Here's a good one because you seem to need a rock to lean on.

Rock of Ages, cleft for me,
Let me hide myself in Thee;
Let the water and the blood,
From Thy wounded side which flowed,
Be of sin the double cure;
Save from wrath and make me pure.

Not the labor of my hands
Can fulfill Thy law’s demands;
Could my zeal no respite know,
Could my tears forever flow,
All for sin could not atone;
Thou must save, and Thou alone.

Nothing in my hand I bring,
Simply to the cross I cling;
Naked, come to Thee for dress;
Helpless look to Thee for grace;
Foul, I to the fountain fly;
Wash me, Savior, or I die.

While I draw this fleeting breath,
When mine eyes shall close in death,
[originally When my eye-strings break in death]
When I soar to worlds unknown,
See Thee on Thy judgment throne,
Rock of Ages, cleft for me,
Let me hide myself in Thee.


Words: Augustus M. Toplady, 1776

The simplest way to know if it true Jesus is son of God is that you confess and believe that he died on the cross for your sin.Accept Him to be Lord of your Life truly for 6months and attend bible believing fellowship.Study the bible 4hrs daily.Thereafter,come back here to let us know your discovery.

Click this link http://ehow.com/how-do-we-know-that-Jesus-is-the-son-of-God.html and you'll know how. Don't trust me.

Let me add one more; as I said before, it is Advent afterall! 

Let All Mortal Flesh Keep Silence     (Preferred Tune: Picardy)

Let all mortal flesh keep silence,
And with fear and trembling stand;
Ponder nothing earthly minded,
For with blessing in His hand,
Christ our God to earth descendeth,
Our full homage to demand.

King of kings, yet born of Mary,
As of old on earth He stood,
Lord of lords, in human vesture,
In the body and the blood;
He will give to all the faithful
His own self for heavenly food.

Rank on rank the host of heaven
Spreads its vanguard on the way,
As the Light of light descendeth
From the realms of endless day,
That the powers of hell may vanish
As the darkness clears away.

At His feet the six wingèd seraph,
Cherubim with sleepless eye,
Veil their faces to the presence,
As with ceaseless voice they cry:
Alleluia, Alleluia
Alleluia, Lord Most High!

Performed by Fernando Ortega

[flash=400,300]http://youtube.com/v/8wl4u8lnDQs[/flash]

@Enigma can you give me a certain verse in the Bible where Jesus boldly say i am the son of God? remember he call himself more than 70 times in the bible but never say i am the son of God

First of all I'm sure you are aware that Jesus called God His Father several times! 

Now let's do a little exercise in logic and comprehension. Here:

Matthew 16:13-17

When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, 'Who do people say the Son of Man is?' They replied, 'Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.'

'But what about you?' he asked. 'Who do you say I am?' Simon Peter answered, 'You are the Christ [Messiah], the Son of the living God.'

Jesus replied, 'Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.'

In summary this is what the blue words reveal Jesus as saying: . . . the Son of Man is . . . the Son of the Living God . . . revealed . . . by my Father in heaven.

And can you please without insult Explain this verses to me

Luke 22:67-71:

   67Art thou the Christ? tell us. And he said unto them, If I tell you, ye will not believe:

   68And if I also ask you, ye will not answer me, nor let me go.

   69Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.

   70Then said they all, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am.

   71And they said, What need we any further witness? for we ourselves have heard of his own mouth.

     Can you simply explain in simple form what the verses and the bolds up there mean to you?
and please also explain with honest Thank you

bashy_demy:

And can you please without insult Explain this verses to me

Have I insulted you? Are you afraid of 'insult' because you yourself throw insult at people?

bashy_demy:
Luke 22:67-71:

   67Art thou the Christ? tell us. And he said unto them, If I tell you, ye will not believe:

   68And if I also ask you, ye will not answer me, nor let me go.

   69[b]Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God[/b].

   70Then said they all, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am.

   71And they said, What need we any further witness? for we ourselves have heard of his own mouth.

     Can you simply explain in simple form what the verses and the bolds up there mean to you?
and please also explain the bolds Thank you

Apart from your bold, I have bolded verse 69 in blue for you.

Starting with your bold: it means that His accusers believed/understood Him to be saying He was the Son of God. They would of course be strengthened in this viewpoint by the bit that I bolded in blue i.e. His claim that He would be seated at the right hand of God.

Enigma:

Have I insulted you? Are you afraid of 'insult' because you yourself throw insult at people?

No just trying to caution you in advance LOL

Enigma:


Apart from your bold, I have bolded verse 69 in blue for you.

The verse 69 does not indicate is he is a son of God,  And surely without doubt someone is going to sit at the right hand of God, And another at the left hand of God and that does not make any of them God,  for example you have kids does that mean any of your kids that sit at your right hand is your son and the rest are not?

Enigma:


Starting with your bold: it means that His accusers believed/understood Him to be saying He was the Son of God. They would of course be strengthened in this viewpoint by the bit that I bolded in blue i.e. His claim that He would be seated at the right hand of God.

hmmm that is not it as they are only asking maybe cos of rumor and they ask if he is the son of God, And he said  ye say that i am meaning i dint say so ooo na una talk am ooo.
and beside if he is the son of God has you claim, Why is he so afraid to tell them yes i am. And remember what the last verse said.

71And they said, What need we any further witness? for we ourselves have heard of his own mouth.

its like an accused person taken to court and they ask are you Guilty? and he said you say so. Can you tell me what that means? thank you once again

^^^ I have given my own interpretation; if you don't agree with it and prefer your own, that is fine. There is no point for me to repeat myself.

Aha.

@Enigma^^^ Because your so call interpretation as so no meaning what so ever. They ask someone he is his name is Enigma, And he said you say so, that mean that is not his name dint you get it.