michelin89:

I'll leave that to the scientists. with all the hustle i go still dey hala about origins and end?!

And will you believe whatever assertion the scientists put forward as the origin of creation?

queensmith:

Well done, you could read when you was in college, clap for yourself

Clap for yourself when you FINALLY grow up, and find yourself - and quit moaning about everything.

[quote
author=sauer]
Apparently, you do what most Christians do: you pick and choose what to
believe. I wouldn't have a problem with this nor would any other atheist
or person. The problem arises when you'd have us believe what lies in
the bible is absolute truth, for it certainly can't be proper
that you'd pick and choose from a book that contains the absolute
truth.[/quote] Absolute
truth? I know nothing about the Bible being so, so 'l just go ahead and pass.
Honestly, if christians (and other
religionists) would retract that claim, they would suffer much less
attack from those who hold nothing of religion.

However, if this book is indeed like every other book to you, you
should be able to ask questions. Don't be held back. A few questions
here and there will always help

Yeah, I know that but would love
to ask whoever wrote it but it's common knowledge they are all dead. The
pastors are doing a good job attempting these questions though but
atimes, am stil not convinced with their answers.

And to add, of course we hear the story that the pastor isn't
the church, yet we see the reverse demonstrated daily. Most
actually abide by what their pastors say, and not by what the bible
says. There appears to be comfort in having someone else make the
decisions for them. Much pleasant if such someone was highly placed in
spiritual matters.

But
that itself doesn't make it TRUE. On a side note, 'v been to a church and heard a well
known pastor blasphemed and I was like wtf! and wanted to question him
but like most churches, they don't give room for that.
You see, I admire the muslims a whole lot cos they speak, believe and
do one thing + they love themselves whole
heartedly. You can't boast of that in the Christendom and it makes me
sick to my stomach. The problem religionist and non religionist have is,
they are both trying to prove what they believe in is the absolute
truth and also rubbing it on each other faces, Just let people be cos in
all it is just some borrowed culture.

emöfine2: Extremes exist in every society; so if theism existed so would have atheism even agnosticism and so on etc...the titles or description may have been different in relation to the society/culture at the time. Atheists (in the west) were relatively silent prior to 9/11 so I can only imagine how silent or private African atheists are concerning their unbelief in a traditionally spiritually steeped continent. We really shouldn't be crediting the Europeans for everything now...Christianity included.

For the sake of our fellow Africans on the North Eastern tip of the continent whose history intersected with Christianity long before many Europeans adhered to the faith and the first European missionaries on the continent I consider it a disservice to them to donate the larger Christian body to the Europeans...our history with Christianity may not resemble other Africans history with the faith.

Basically, why people credit Europeans with Christianity is because of the Jesus invention.. Prior to council of nicea 325 A.D, Jesus wasn't part of what we all call Christianity - Jesus was created at the council of nicea, which makes the Europeans the rightful owners of religion we all now call Christianity... Don't forget the first proper Bible was written by King James..

shymmex:

And will you believe whatever assertion the scientists put forward as the origin of creation?

Don't you also believe in creation? has it been proved? besides do you think scientists would come up with any crap to satisfy the curiosity of some people. i guess you know how scientific reasoning works. it's a continuous search and confutation of theories. it's not infallible. it's not dogmatic.

michelin89:


I'll leave that to the scientists. with all the hustle i go still dey hala about origins and end?!

can I ask whether you have any religious beliefs whatsoever?

queensmith:

http://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Why_Read_Marx_Today.html?id=ugOjJtLoTuEC&redir_esc=y

This jonathan guy seems quite a brilliant and engaging writer. Now, do I see myself adding this to my to-read list!

shymmex:

Basically, why people credit Europeans with Christianity is because of the Jesus invention.. Prior to council of nicea 325 A.D, Jesus wasn't part of what we all call Christianity - Jesus was created at the council of nicea, which makes the Europeans the rightful owners of religion we all now call Christianity... Don't forget the first proper Bible was written by King James..

No, Jesus wasn't created at the council of nicea. Of course, he existed well before then and there had been fights to have him installed in a "trinity". This was merely formalised at the council of nicea. If anyone knew this history and many more which paint christianity as the creation of an assembly of men, why would the same person take the religion so seriously?

michelin89:
Don't you also believe in creation? has it been proved? besides do you think scientists would come up with any crap to satisfy the curiosity of some people. i guess you know how scientific reasoning works. it's a continuous search and confutation of theories. it's not infallible. it's not dogmatic.

I believe in creation, and the God concept.. And since science is a continuous search and confutation of theories, which will make whatever theory they come up with inconclusive - I'll stick to my God concept, and accept that I'm here because of a supreme being.. The universe, the stars, the solar system, the beautiful planet earth, and all living things were created by a supreme being - who's greater than me..

shymmex:

Basically, why people credit Europeans with Christianity is because of the Jesus invention.. Prior to council of nicea 325 A.D, Jesus wasn't part of what we all call Christianity - Jesus was created at the council of nicea, which makes the Europeans the rightful owners of religion we all now call Christianity... Don't forget the first proper Bible was written by King James..

where the hell do you get your ideas from? Jesus was created at the council of Nicea and that makes the Europeans the rightful owner of Christianity? The first proper Bible was written by King James? WTF? who told you all this? The council of Nicea might as well have had more people from the East in it than from the West, and Constantine who called the council might as well have been no westerner. And King james wrote the bible?
I really could start doubting anything you type from now

sauer:
can I ask whether you have any religious beliefs whatsoever?

Does it really matter? why can't we live peacefully without labels of any kind?

sauer:
can I ask whether you have any religious beliefs whatsoever?


This jonathan guy seems quite a brilliant and engaging writer. Now, do I see myself adding this to my to-read list!


No, Jesus wasn't created at the council of nicea. Of course, he existed well before then and there had been fights to have him installed in a "trinity". This was merely formalised at the council of nicea. If anyone knew this history and many more which paint christianity as the creation of an assembly of men, why would the same person take the religion so seriously?

well he was quite bias, he made a bit of an effort to discredit communism and somne of marx's writings but it was a good introduction for me into marx's works. I havent read the communist manifesto but i'll try that one soon.

sauer:
No, Jesus wasn't created at the council of nicea. Of course, he existed well before then and there had been fights to have him installed in a "trinity". This was merely formalised at the council of nicea. If anyone knew this history and many more which paint christianity as the creation of an assembly of men, why would the same person take the religion so seriously?

When I said 'Jesus' was created at the council of nicea - I was referring to the name 'Jesus' itself, not his story.. Horus, Zeus, Yeshua etc. (with the same story) all existed before him - but the Christian version called 'Jesus' was created at the council of nicea.

And I don't take any form of religion seriously, I just lead a free life - but I believe in the God concept. My conscience, and intuition are the only commandments I follow.

shymmex:

I believe in creation, and the God concept.. And since science is a continuous search and confutation of theories, which will make whatever theory they come up with inconclusive - I'll stick to my God concept, and accept that I'm here because of a supreme being.. The universe, the stars, the solar system, the beautiful planet earth, and all living things were created by a supreme being - who's greater than me..

I believe no knowledge is forever. certainty is its worst enemies. it leads to arrogance, conceitedness and intellectual laziness.

sauer:
where the hell do you get your ideas from? Jesus was created at the council of Nicea and that makes the Europeans the rightful owner of Christianity? The first proper Bible was written by King James? WTF? who told you all this? The council of Nicea might as well have had more people from the East in it than from the West, and Constantine who called the council might as well have been no westerner. And King james wrote the bible?
I really could start doubting anything you type from now

I said the first PROPER Bible was written by King James... Don't forget the old 'Bible' had some books which were excluded from the King james version - which later became the finalized version of the Bible...

I've got some of the book excluded from the final version.. They include:

- The Life of Adam and Eve
- The Book of Jubilees
- The Book of Enoch
- The Infancy Gospel of Thomas
- The Protovangelion of James
- The Gospel of Mary
- The Gospel of Nicodemus
- The Apocalypse of Peter

michelin89:


Does it really matter? why can't we live peacefully without labels of any kind?

My intention is not to get into an argument. I'm just curious, that's all. Of course, everyone should really live peacefully with each other irrespective of religious biases. However, we know how difficult it is already between Manchester United and Manchester City fans, not to talk of between Christians and Muslims. Apparently, it's just the way humans are afterall

queensmith:

well he was quite bias, he made a bit of an effort to discredit communism and somne of marx's writings but it was a good introduction for me into marx's works. I havent read the communist manifesto but i'll try that one soon.

Yeah, I read the intro on google. He appears to be discrediting Marxism from the outset, even though he seems incredibly knowledge and enthusiastic about the German philosopher and his works. Then again, he's English and England never really produced any philosopher of equal status as Marx, so he may just be jealous

michelin89:
I believe no knowledge is forever. certainty is its worst enemies. it leads to arrogance, conceitedness and intellectual laziness.

I understand where you're coming from, but don't you think it's redundant to keep waiting for theories that's inconclusive? I don't care how hard scientists try, they'll never find the answer to life... And the universe is too complex for anyone to ever find an answer to how it works - and the more they try, they more complex it gets...

Let's all enjoy life... Life is short like they say, but we all need to stop living in denial...

As for me, it's about being true to myself - and embracing my ethnicity, my origin, and what's natural to me; which is my inborn Yoruba spirituality...

Knowledge of self is important.

sauer:
Yeah, I read the intro on google. He appears to be discrediting Marxism from the outset, even though he seems incredibly knowledge and enthusiastic about the German philosopher and his works. Then again, he's English and England never really produced any philosopher of equal status as Marx, so he may just be jealous

sharrap! lol.

when you germans are jobless! :p

shymmex:

I said the first PROPER Bible was written by King James... Don't forget the old 'Bible' had some books which were excluded from the King james version - which later became the finalized version of the Bible...

I've got some of the book excluded from the final version.. They include:

- The Life of Adam and Eve
- The Book of Jubilees
- The Book of Enoch
- The Infancy Gospel of Thomas
- The Protovangelion of James
- The Gospel of Mary
- The Gospel of Nicodemus
- The Apocalypse of Peter

well, just to set the records straight. King James never wrote any bible. The king james version of the Bible, just as every other bible, is a translated version from the original Greek, Aramiac, etc languages in which the bible was written. The authors of the King James bible were probably former catholic scholars or independent scholars of the John Wycliffe kind. The King merely commissioned them to complete this translations.

The bible had many stories that formed it. Several other versions of the gospel were unearthed and this made a pile of books both relevant and irrelevant. When the catholics set out to assemble the books, they PICKED AND CHOSE what would come in and what wouldn't. Over the years, a standard version of "the books of the bible" came about and that's what we have had over the last few centuries. In effect, standardized canons emerged. Of course, many christians don't know this. If you mention, for example, the Gospel of Mary (as above) or the Prayers of Manasseh, next thing you'll hear is a scream or a rude cry that you are engaging pagan thoughts.

queensmith:

sharrap! lol.

when you germans are jobless! :p

Lol. okay, am not german and am not jobless
But Germans did seem to have dominated the world of philosophy and natural thinking those years. Hegel, Kant, Nietzsche, Husserl. . . .I could go on forever! No wonder they call it Das Land der Dichter und Denker

sauer:
well, just to set the records straight. King James never wrote any bible. The king james version of the Bible, just as every other bible, is a translated version from the original Greek, Aramiac, etc languages in which the bible was written. The authors of the King James bible were probably former catholic scholars or independent scholars of the John Wycliffe kind. The King merely commissioned them to complete this translations.

The bible had many stories that formed it. Several other versions of the gospel were unearthed and this made a pile of books both relevant and irrelevant. When the catholics set out to assemble the books, they PICKED AND CHOSE what would come in and what wouldn't. Over the years, a standard version of "the books of the bible" came about and that's what we have had over the last few centuries. In effect, standardized canons emerged. Of course, many christians don't know this. If you mention, for example, the Gospel of Mary (as above) or the Prayers of Manasseh, next thing you'll hear is a scream or a rude cry that you are engaging pagan thoughts.

The point i was making was that, King James version is the finalized version of the Bible - and it was written by Europeans..

All the other books you're referring to were not called Bible.. You need to be able to differentiate between the two.

Front page?!?!?

I'm out!!

sauer:
Lol. okay, am not german and am not jobless
But Germans did seem to have dominated the world of philosophy and natural thinking those years. Hegel, Kant, Nietzsche, Husserl. . . .I could go on forever! No wonder they call it Das Land der Dichter und Denker

Germans are such knowledgeable people. Still find it hard to believe in the WWII horror!

michelin89:
Germans are such knowledgeable people. Still find it hard to believe in the WWII horror!

Most English people are Germanic, though..

As for world war II - Hitler's stupidity caused their downfall.

michelin89:


Germans are such knowledgeable people. Still find it hard to believe in the WWII horror!

The WWII horror is what being supersmart can do to a nation. While not attempting to justify these horrors and exonerate Hitler, if he hadn't imprisoned and killed Jews in gory concentration camps, he would have just been another Napoleon.
And michelin89, you didn't answer my question. Are you religious?

shymmex:

Most English people are Germanic, though..

As for world war II - Hitler's stupidity caused their downfall.

Not just stupidity, but also greed and delusion. In spite of that, the Germans still remain one of the most favourable set of people in Western Europe.

Yes. End of story.

I guess that's why they are referred to as anglo-saxons.

they must have been really depressed to allow a STUPID man to cause the downfall of centuries of excellent philosophy and knowledge.

Never.

God created man and jinn to worship Him.

sauer:
And michelin89, you didn't answer my question. Are you religious?

If you still haven't understood where i belong then i can't but applaud myself. i'm becoming less bias and more neutral.

I'm neutral!

Logic Mind: Just wondering with naija girls mentality if a very good, rich, loving, handsome, intelligent, educated fellow fell madly in love with you and you with him but you realise he doesn't believe in any god. Will you still marry him if he proposes?

With naija babes, the bolded is the only qualification a man needs. as long as he is rich, he could be the high priest of Baal they wont care

Vikin:

Yes i would. Couldnt care less about religion. What i wont do is marry a religion freak!

Pity You!

God forbid.

Tsaaa! (Spits in disgust.)

Another Okija:

I had to promise her to attend church once a month at the minimum for a little peace to reign..

​=))º°˚˚˚°ºнaĦaнaº°˚˚˚°º‎​=))...
I also had to make same promise..