[quote author=Boomark]

It now very obvious that you are blind. This is not the same as someone who does not know but wants to know. You don't know the meaning of his exaltation.

we will see who is really blind by twisting the word of God to suit Jw's doctrines.

Acts 2:36
New Living Translation
"So let everyone in Israel know for
certain that God has made this
Jesus, whom you crucified, to be
both Lord and Messiah!"

Is this not exaltation? Was he ever Lord and Messiah BEFORE he was MADE Lord and Messiah by God? Bidam will blindly say Yes.

YES. . Like i said earlier it was a role He gladly took by coming to Earth through the virgin birth. Ps.110:1 "The Lord said to my Lord sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool."Jn.1:2[i] “He was in the beginning with God all things were made through him[/i].

Before he conquered and sat down at the right hand of the Father, Rev 3:21,
1. were all powers and authority subject to him? 1Cor 15:27-28, Eph 1:21-22.
2. Did he have a more excellent name than the angels? Heb 1:4.

YES. Because Jesus says He was “with the Father before the world began.” John the apostle said in Jn.1:2 He was there in the beginning with God. And Jn1:10 the world was made through Him. This very same concept is written from the writer in Hebrews1 that, “God made the worlds through the Son”, as well as Col.1:15. If He is not literally there, then it is a lie.

The lifting of slaves to children is not a mere naming ceremony, it is exaltation and it brings additional glory to us, Rom 8:21. The same thing with becoming the Son of God, Hebrew 1:5.

Your human reasoning which is foolishness does not in any way negate the word of God.

You reduced his exaltation by God to merely going back to take up what he already has which he left in heaven. That is not exaltation. I wonder which kind spirit is behind your reasoning?

Let God do the reasoning concerning this. The last time i checked the foolishness of God is wiser than Men.

Bidam: He(God) came to the earth as a MAN.scriptures records God was made manifest in the flesh.

1 Tim.3:16 “God was manifested in the flesh”(man) (appeared in) 1 Jn.4:2; 2 Jn. 7 “came in the flesh.” 1 Jn.1:2: For “the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us.”

You can't break scripture oga..na u blind no be me.

God cannot be born, God cannot die, God cannot be tempted, God is not a Schizophrenic who prays to himself, speaks to himself, raises himself from the dead etc.

I am not sure what God you worship but he does not look anything like my God.

My God is the Father of Lord Jesus Christ, he is not Jesus Christ, he is Almighty God.

The Catholics should be proud of you for imbibing their PAGAN theology into your institutionalized church.

[quote author=Bidam][/quote]

frosbel:


God cannot be born, God cannot die, God cannot be tempted, God is not a Schizophrenic who prays to himself, speaks to himself, raises himself from the dead etc.

I am not sThe Old Testament typology speaks of a spot and blemish free sacrifece. I hardly think a sinful man would qualify, do you?ure what God you worship but he does not look anything like my God.

My God is the Father of Lord Jesus Christ, he is not Jesus Christ, he is Almighty God.

The Catholics should be proud of you for imbibing their PAGAN theology into your institutionalized church.

Your errors knows no bound.

Tempted you say? Then answer these questions before we proceed. If Jesus had any sin of His own, how would He be able to atone for the sins of others?
The Old Testament typology speaks of a spot and blemish free sacrifice. I hardly think a sinful man would qualify, do you?

Can you imagine a man that never from the time he was born ever had one wrong thought or one wrong attitude? Never spoke one wrong word or failed to speak a word that he should have? Never did one wrong deed or failed to do a good deed that should have been done?

A man that was utterly perfect in all things?

I see no way for that to be possible except in the God/man, the incarnation of God Himself in the flesh of a human being. The perfect God, perfect man, Christ Jesus.

Bidam: Your errors knows no bound.

Tempted you say? Then answer these questions before we proceed. If Jesus had any sin of His own, how would He be able to atone for the sins of others?
The Old Testament typology speaks of a spot and blemish free sacrifice. I hardly think a sinful man would qualify, do you?

Can you imagine a man that never from the time he was born ever had one wrong thought or one wrong attitude? Never spoke one wrong word or failed to speak a word that he should have? Never did one wrong deed or failed to do a good deed that should have been done?

A man that was utterly perfect in all things?

I see no way for that to be possible except in the God/man, the incarnation of God Himself in the flesh of a human being. The perfect God, perfect man, Christ Jesus.

Not sinning at all does not make Christ the Almighty God. Christ chosed to be obedient to God and not sin. If he wanted to, he could have sinned, especially when tempted by Satan..

Adam, on the other hand chose to sin. It's not because God created Adam with sin or there was error in how God made man.

Gen1:31 -"God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning--the sixth day".

God made no mistake in the way he created Adam - only Satan alleges that. You really have to be careful of what you say in your quest to support this Trinity-based falsehood of Jesus being God Almighty.

Adam, like Christ started out perfect. It's why Christ's sacrifice can ransom us from Adamic sin, and Christ is called "last Adam" (1 Corinthians 15:45).

What kept Christ perfect and above sin is his choice to remain obedient to God, faithfully keeping the commands of the Almighty. (This is even enough to prove that Christ is not and is subordinate to the Father, Jehovah, God Almighty).

John15:10 - "If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love ".

Bidam: we will see who is really blind by
twisting the word of God to suit
Jw's doctrines.

we will certainly see because i have not even started.

YES. . Like i said earlier it was a
role He gladly took by coming to
Earth through the virgin birth.
Ps.110:1 "The Lord said to my Lord
sit at my right hand until I make
your enemies your footstool."Jn.1:
2[i] “He was in the beginning with
God all things were made through
him[/i].

Chai! You don't even know the things that are prophecies. "the LORD said to my Lord sit...." is a prophecy. Read Acts 2:30-36. That did not happen at the beginning. He was MADE Lord and Christ by God still stands. This is exaltation. Do you know what it means to exalt someone?

YES. Because Jesus says He was
“with the Father before the world
began.” John the apostle said in
Jn.1:2 He was there in the
beginning with God. And Jn1:10 the
world was made through Him. This
very same concept is written from
the writer in Hebrews1 that, “God
made the worlds through the Son”,
as well as Col.1:15. If He is not
literally there, then it is a lie.

In that same beginning, God created the world. "being with God from the Beginning" never answered the question of why he obtained a more excellent name and all powers were made subject to him after resurrection.

Rom 14:9
Christ died and rose again for this
very purpose--to be Lord both of
the living and of the dead.
this never happened in the beginning. This is exaltation(lifting up) to a higher level.

Your human reasoning which is
foolishness does not in any way
negate the word of God.
Let God do the reasoning
concerning this. The last time i
checked the foolishness of God is
wiser than Men.

Did God tell you that His will(purpose) to exalt Jesus is foolishness? When did you become the one to determine things that are foolishness in the will of God? The last time i checked, the will of God is foolishness to satan, demons, atheists, Muslims. Check very well the spirit that is leading you.

Bidam: I now fully understand the reason why my "christian friends" attack threads that says accept the deity of Christ as God. They tend to boil with self righteous indignation and hypocrisy any time they hear the phrase "JESUS IS GOD ALMIGHTY".

Isn't it rather funny that am not the one saying it but the bible. This thread is not meant to attack any religious group but to use the bible as our clear and perfect guide concerning the DEITY OF JESUS CHRIST.


This Christian group attack us with statements like trinitarians, modal ism(first time i dey hear this one sha) etc...

You can't have it both ways! it is either you accept the deity of CHRIST as proved from scriptures or He is some kind of angel(servant). you can't talk out of both side of your mouth. here is an excerpts from one of their false prophetess.

What Ellen G. White (EGW) writes in her books, is to be believed as truth from God's throne by Seventh-day Adventist Church members. Is it true that "the man Christ Jesus was not Lord God Almighty"?

EGW: "But although Christ's glory was for a time veiled and eclipsed by His assuming humanity, yet He did not cease to be God when He became man...The man Christ Jesus was not the Lord God Almighty, yet Christ and the Father are one." SDA Bible Commentary, vol. 5, p.1129.

Jesus "did not cease to be God when he became man," and "that Christ and the Father are one," which are true statements about the deity of God. It is also true that the Father is the Lord God Almighty, but it is a false statement to say, "that Jesus is not the Lord God Almighty."

Why would God give Ellen a false statement about himself? The truth is that God did not reveal this, as God does not lie. The answer simply is this; Ellen G. White is a false prophet.



Does It Make a Difference?

Because of the authority given Ellen G. White by the Seventh -day Adventist Church, many that read her statement that "the man Christ Jesus was not the Lord God Almighty" will regard it as truth. What does this statement do to the deity of Christ? It says that the Father and Son are not really equal in their deity and that the Father is the Lord God Almighty and Christ is somewhat of a lesser God.



This is very similar to the beliefs of the Jehovah's Witnesses who believe that Jesus Christ is not God equal to the Father, and regard him as just "a god " (with a small g). This is found in their New World Translation of John 1:1.The Witnesses also believe that Jesus is a mighty god and Jehovah is the Lord God Almighty. This gives Ellen G. White, the SDA Church and the Jehovah's Witness two Gods, one that is Almighty and one that is not as Almighty.


The Truth[color=#000099][/color]

Jesus Christ is called the Lord God Almighty, and the Alpha and Omega, Rev. 1:8, the same as the Father is called the Lord God Almighty and the Alpha and Omega. Rev. 21:5,6.

Almighty applies to Christ, from the Greek word "pantokrator," which means all-ruling, Almighty, Omnipotent.

The Savior is equal to the Father, Col 2:9 (NIV) For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form...

that rev. 1:8 is not talking of Jesus. the context seem to imply that, but the words "lord God" combined together is usually used of God alone. that is why some translation view this as alluding to the "OT" verse. and use the divine name in that verse.

If their are teachings that shouldnt be embraced, trinity is one of them. that doctrine is never compartible with the clear bible teaching at all at all....... e no follow at all.

*observing* @bidam sir, fire on jare ,make dem hear d truth.

TroGunn:

Not sinning at all does not make Christ the Almighty God. Christ chosed to be obedient to God and not sin. If he wanted to, he could have sinned, especially when tempted by Satan..

Adam, on the other hand chose to sin. It's not because God created Adam with sin or there was error in how God made man.

Gen1:31 -"God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning--the sixth day".

God made no mistake in the way he created Adam - only Satan alleges that. You really have to be careful of what you say in your quest to support this Trinity-based falsehood of Jesus being God Almighty.

Adam, like Christ started out perfect. It's why Christ's sacrifice can ransom us from Adamic sin, and Christ is called "last Adam" (1 Corinthians 15:45).

What kept Christ perfect and above sin is his choice to remain obedience to God, faithfully keeping the commands of the Almighty. (This is even enough to prove that Christ is not and is subordinate to the Father, Jehovah, God Almighty).

John15:10 - "If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love ".

Thanks for the bolded advice, but i don't think i need it. Your assertion that obedience is the key is false.Scripture records Paul and the rich young ruler blameless before the Law. (Lk. 18:20-21; Phil. 3:6).

So if Jesus was righteous and blameless according to the Law,Then he sure has an ally in Paul and the rich young ruler.

The point you fail to see here is that Jesus paid the price for the sins of ALL of mankind past, present, and future.

The question you need to ask yourself is that how could any sinful man–a man that had sinned even once in his life and that therefore had the spiritual and physical death penalty accessed to him by God pay the price for the sins of all of mankind past, present, and future?

David was clear when he said in my sin did my mother conceived me, so the sin nature is there already. Jesus was perfectly sinless due to the virgin birth.

Any death (sacrifice) he could possibly make would have to pay for his own sins, if he had any but of cos he didn't. How then could he also pay for the sins of all of those other humans who owed the same penalty themselves?

Frosbel argument is ridiculous and inconsistent with scriptural truths and reality, All have sinned(except Jesus who went to the cross to bore our sins). Only a sinless man that didn’t owe the penalty himself could begin to pay for the sins of the rest of the world.

Jesus is that perfect lamb of God without spot nor blemish.Paul who was blameless before the law was specifically told by Ananias what he needed to do to “wash away his sins.”

Could a man like Paul with sins of his own pay the price to wash away the sins of all of the rest of the world? Or again, would he have to pay that price to wash away his own sins?? Remember, each man dies for his own sins.

Boomark:
we will certainly see because i have not even started.



Chai! You don't even know the things that are prophecies. "the LORD said to my Lord sit...." is a prophecy. Read Acts 2:30-36. That did not happen at the beginning. He was MADE Lord and Christ by God still stands. This is exaltation. Do you know what it means to exalt someone?



In that same beginning, God created the world. "being with God from the Beginning" never answered the question of why he obtained a more excellent name and all powers were made subject to him after resurrection.

Rom 14:9
Christ died and rose again for this
very purpose--to be Lord both of
the living and of the dead.
this never happened in the beginning. This is exaltation(lifting up) to a higher level.



Did God tell you that His will(purpose) to exalt Jesus is foolishness? When did you become the one to determine things that are foolishness in the will of God? The last time i checked, the will of God is foolishness to satan, demons, atheists, Muslims. Check very well the spirit that is leading you.

Christ was concealed in the OT and revealed in the NT. He is the visible image of God for no ONE has seen and can see God. It is clear and evident in scripture that Jesus and the Father are ONE, THEY ARE NOT SEPARATE ENTITIES but distinct personalities and that is why Jesus is called God the Son

The word Father in relation to God doesn't mean father the way one is related to a human father( that is human logic and that was why i told you to let God do the reasoning on this one because the foolishness of God is wiser than men,So if you take it i insulted you sorry it is the scriptures not me. ). or in the sense of someone who is "greater" or "older"( i can see how you are trying too hard to build an erroneous doctrine on exaltation, na Jw style be that.. ). God is not "older" than Jesus Christ( I double dare you to show me a single verse of scripture that says God is older than Jesus Christ).

Jesus is ETERNAL, as God the Father is ETERNAL,rather,the word FATHER refers to God's being the SOURCE from which Jesus was sent.

JMAN05:

that rev. 1:8 is not talking of Jesus. the context seem to imply that, but the words "lord God" combined together is usually used of God alone. that is why some translation view this as alluding to the "OT" verse. and use the divine name in that verse.

We don't have two LORDS only one LORD.Jesus is the same,yesterday,today and forever.

JMAN05: If their are teachings that shouldnt be embraced, trinity is one of them. that doctrine is never compartible with the clear bible teaching at all at all....... e no follow at all.

Bro.. i went on a search, i didn't just arrive there in one day.Keep searching the word of God.

This is what the bible says about God and i can bring scriptures to validates all these points here.

1.The Father is God.
2.The Son is God.
3.The Father is not the Holy Spirit.
4.The Holy Spirit is God.
5.The son is not the Holy Spirit.

All these points are scriptural proofs which can't be debunked by you and other folks till thy kingdom come because it is clearly stated in scriptures.Infact i make bold to say here that it is the concept of the unitarian God that is illogical.Frosbel use to argue here that God is just a spirit,well if God is just a spirit he will be no greater than the angels since that is all the angels are,and lucifer will have a chance in the war in heaven if God is only a spirit.

I believe God to be more than just a spirit since he created all the angels and that was why i said the infinite God is beyond what our finite minds can grasp.

All monotheistic religions claim that God is all-knowing(omniscient). If God knows all He must be able to see everything and then He must be everywhere all at once which makes God omnipresence.Now the meat of the gist is that if God is omnipresent he will have to be greater than our 3 dimensional world because a 3 dimensional being can never be omnipresent.In other words God is hyper dimensional or infinitely dimensional,let's see what prophet Isaiah has to say about this.

Isaiah 40:28 (KJV)

28 Hast thou not known? Hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the Lord, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? There is no searching of His understanding.


Isaiah 40:28 (CEB)

28 Don’t you know? Haven’t you heard?
The Lord is the everlasting God,
the creator of the ends of the earth.
He doesn’t grow tired or weary.
His understanding is beyond human reach,
[/color]

[color=#990000]Isaiah 40:28

28 Surely you know the truth.
Surely you have heard.
The Lord is the God who lives forever!
He created all the faraway places on earth.
He does not get tired and weary.
You cannot learn all he knows.

The truth is since we are 3 dimensional beings we have a limit in our understanding logically about a hyper dimensional being such as God.For example a two dimensional world will never understand that a square can be made like a cube,it will only look like a sqaure to him no matter where it changes so he has to trust and believe the explanations of someone living in a 3 dimensional world that the square is actually a cube.And so is God attributes in hyper dimensional terms according to scriptures,Paul understood it and that was why he said the multifaceted and multidimensional wisdom of God which the age does not know neither could it comprehend it.The concept of trinity by bible scholars of old is hence the perfect explanations of the attributes of God as a hyper dimensional idea that can be explainable to us.Thanks and God bless.

Oyinprince: *observing* @bidam sir, fire on jare ,make dem hear d truth.

Thanks bro... these folks are stiff-necked and rebellious just like the Israelite. They have been brainwashed by Jw's doctrines. I pray God in His infinite mercy doesn't give up on them but delivers them.Kenneth Hagin once said the most difficult spirit to cast out is religious spirits.God help us.

Bidam: Thanks for the bolded advice, but i don't think i need it. Your assertion that obedience is the key is false.Scripture records Paul and the rich young ruler blameless before the Law. (Lk. 18:20-21; Phil. 3:6).

So if Jesus was righteous and blameless according to the Law,Then he sure has an ally in Paul and the rich young ruler.

The point you fail to see here is that Jesus paid the price for the sins of ALL of mankind past, present, and future.

The question you need to ask yourself is that how could any sinful man–a man that had sinned even once in his life and that therefore had the spiritual and physical death penalty accessed to him by God pay the price for the sins of all of mankind past, present, and future?

David was clear when he said in my sin did my mother conceived me, so the sin nature is there already. Jesus was perfectly sinless due to the virgin birth.

Any death (sacrifice) he could possibly make would have to pay for his own sins, if he had any but of cos he didn't. How then could he also pay for the sins of all of those other humans who owed the same penalty themselves?

Frosbel argument is ridiculous and inconsistent with scriptural truths and reality, All have sinned(except Jesus who went to the cross to bore our sins). Only a sinless man that didn’t owe the penalty himself could begin to pay for the sins of the rest of the world.

Jesus is that perfect lamb of God without spot nor blemish.Paul who was blameless before the law was specifically told by Ananias what he needed to do to “wash away his sins.”

Could a man like Paul with sins of his own pay the price to wash away the sins of all of the rest of the world? Or again, would he have to pay that price to wash away his own sins?? Remember, each man dies for his own sins.

Bidam, this is an excellent post! No arguments from the scripture against the points you made above.

Do reread my post - I think you missed my point.

No human descendant of Adam could have paid the ransom, being as all became sinful due to Adam's disobedience.

God lovingly sent a perfect man not tainted by Adamic sin, to provide that legal release from sin.

That the perfect man sent, Jesus, obediently fulfilled his mission, choosing not to fall into sin like Adam does not make that perfect man God Almighty- that's my point.

Adam could have chosen to remain perfect by being obedient, but he did not. His choice. Adam was not God Almighty at the point he was sinless. If he had chosen to be obedient, he would not have morphed into God Almighty.

Jesus choosing to be obedient and remain sinless is out real love he has for his Father and mankind, not because he is God Almighty.

As Christ pointedly said, the Father is greater than he is.

TroGunn:

Bidam, this is an excellent post! No arguments from the scripture against the points you made above.

Do reread my post - I think you missed my point.

No human descendant of Adam could have paid the ransom, being as all became sinful due to Adam's disobedience.

God lovingly sent a perfect man not tainted by Adamic sin, to provide that legal release from sin.

That the perfect man sent, Jesus, obediently fulfilled his mission, choosing not to fall into sin like Adam does not make that perfect man God Almighty- that's my point.

Adam could have chosen to remain perfect by being obedient, but he did not. His choice. Adam was not God Almighty at the point he was sinless. If he had chosen to be obedient, he would not have morphed into God Almighty.

Jesus choosing to be obedient and remain sinless is out real love he has for his Father and mankind, not because he is God Almighty.

As Christ pointedly said, the Father is greater than he is.

John 1:1 cancels your assertion that this man is not God.

Bidam: John 1:1 cancels your assertion that this man is not God.

Actually John 1:1 clearly supports that Christ is a different powerful spirit being, who was with God Almighty but definitely not God Almighty.

1Cor 15:25-28 clearly shows who gave Jesus his power and the limit of that power.

TroGunn:

Actually John 1:1 clearly supports that Christ is a different powerful spirit being, who was with God Almighty but definitely not God Almighty.

1Cor 15:25-28 clearly shows who gave Jesus his power and the limit of that power.

Sorry the scripture does not support this assertion.They are your imaginations.

GAL3:20a..Now a mediator is not a mediator of one...!
The Law has a mediator,there,s God side and man side.that is man has to do certain things for God before God will do certain things for man. When parties A and B draft a contract, the contract states what A must do and what B will do in return and vice versa. A mediator will then serve as a witness between the two parties. The law states what God's responsibility to man is and what man's responsibility to God is. If either side fails, the whole matter falls through.
GAL3:20b.... but GOD is ONE.
The law implies two sides. If either side has problems, the whole matter falls through. In giving the law, God said that we should do this and that we should do that. If we fail to do them, the whole matter will fall through. But in making the promise, "God is one," regardless of how we are. In promise and in grace, there is no mention of our side, only of God's side.party A is GOD,PARTY B is GOD,and if by chance theres a mediator He is God!!

Bidam: Sorry the scripture does not support this assertion.They are your imaginations.

Christ is surely an independent, powerful being - a different person from God Almighty.

Stephen was not imagining the clear vision of heaven he had, when he saw Christ as a distinct and different person at God's right hand in this verse -
Acts 7:55-56 - “But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, and said, 'Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!'.”

Also, Revelation Chapters 4 and 5 detail how the Lamb (Christ) was the only one worthy to collect the scroll from God, seated on the throne. Another clear example of the distinctness of God and Christ - surely they are two persons.

Rev 5:6,7 - "Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing at the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. The Lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth. He went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne".

Was God collecting scroll from himself, his other half being seated on the throne?

Or in Psalms 110:1 "Jehovah said unto my Lord, Sit at my right hand, until I put thine enemies as footstool of thy feet".

Was Jehovah talking to himself - telling himself to sit at his own right hand? ( Note that Jesus himself confirmed that this Psalm 110:1 scripture, written by David was about him - Matt 22:42-46).

Bros, throw away rubbish traditional teaching and believe the clear and simple truths in the Bible.

una no dey tire for trinity argument?

i.chuka:
GAL3:20a..Now a mediator is not a mediator of one...!
The Law has a mediator,there,s God side and man side.that is man has to do certain things for God before God will do certain things for man. When parties A and B draft a contract, the contract states what A must do and what B will do in return and vice versa. A mediator will then serve as a witness between the two parties. The law states what God's responsibility to man is and what man's responsibility to God is. If either side fails, the whole matter falls through.
GAL3:20b.... but GOD is ONE.
The law implies two sides. If either side has problems, the whole matter falls through. In giving the law, God said that we should do this and that we should do that. If we fail to do them, the whole matter will fall through. But in making the promise, "God is one," regardless of how we are. In promise and in grace, there is no mention of our side, only of God's side.party A is GOD,PARTY B is GOD,and if by chance theres a mediator He is God!!

This your explanation and conclusion is befuddling.

So if the President has issues with a Governor, and then dispatches his senior aide to mediate, does that make the aide same (or as powerful) as the President? This your logic nawa.

God is indeed one and his name is Jehovah/Yahweh (Ps 83:18).

Christ is Jehovah's foremost messenger (Malachi 3:1), with additional roles including being the mediator between God and man.

"But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God "--1 Cor 11:3

Bidam: Christ was concealed in the OT and revealed in the NT. He is the visible image of God for no ONE has seen and can see God. It is clear and evident in scripture that Jesus and the Father are ONE, THEY ARE NOT SEPARATE ENTITIES but distinct personalities and that is why Jesus is called God the Son

The word Father in relation to God doesn't mean father the way one is related to a human father( that is human logic and that was why i told you to let God do the reasoning on this one because the foolishness of God is wiser than men,So if you take it i insulted you sorry it is the scriptures not me. ). or in the sense of someone who is "greater" or "older"( i can see how you are trying too hard to build an erroneous doctrine on exaltation, na Jw style be that.. ). God is not "older" than Jesus Christ( I double dare you to show me a single verse of scripture that says God is older than Jesus Christ).

Jesus is ETERNAL, as God the Father is ETERNAL,rather,the word FATHER refers to God's being the SOURCE from which Jesus was sent.

from those on red ^^^

Bidam: God is not "older" than Jesus Christ( I double dare you to show me a single verse of scripture that says God is older than Jesus Christ).

See , Jesus has a begining from that, see below:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (John 1:1).
..................

From that ^, it is obviouse that Jesus christ have a begining. His start was "in the begining".

But the almighty/true God has no begining:

but the father, the true God has no begining:

1 Timothy 1:17
Amplified Bible (AMP)


"Now to the King of eternity, incorruptible and immortal, invisible, the only God,[color=#990000] be honor and glory forever and ever".(1timothy 1:17)
.....................

The almighty is and has always been there from eternity to eternity. No start No ending.

So, your statement above is plain falsehood.

Read ^ and upgrade.

Peace

Bidam: Christ was concealed in the OT and revealed in the NT. He is the visible image of God for no ONE has seen and can see God. It is clear and evident in scripture that Jesus and the Father are ONE, THEY ARE NOT SEPARATE ENTITIES but distinct personalities and that is why Jesus is called God the Son

The word Father in relation to God doesn't mean father the way one is related to a human father( that is human logic and that was why i told you to let God do the reasoning on this one because the foolishness of God is wiser than men,So if you take it i insulted you sorry it is the scriptures not me. ). or in the sense of someone who is "greater" or "older"( i can see how you are trying too hard to build an erroneous doctrine on exaltation, na Jw style be that.. ). God is not "older" than Jesus Christ( I double dare you to show me a single verse of scripture that says God is older than Jesus Christ).

Jesus is ETERNAL, as God the Father is ETERNAL,rather,the word FATHER refers to God's being the SOURCE from which Jesus was sent.

You are now giving me ADVICE base on human reasoning. I thought we are looking at the scriptures. Many people will like to know the truth. You are losing confidence on the Truth by saying God should do the reasoning on things he told us through Christ.

First, trinity became a mystery, now the exaltation our Lord by his death and resurrection is foolishness and of no significance because you are defending co-equality and trinity invented by men.

Start from here

Rom 14:9
Christ died and rose again for this
very purpose--to be Lord both of
the living and of the dead.

Tell the world that he was not made Lord after his resurrection. Lets do it scripture for scripture. Don't give human advice.

[quote author=TroGunn]

Christ is surely an independent, powerful being - a different person from God Almighty.

Like i said earlier,this is your vain imagination.

Stephen was not imagining the clear vision of heaven he had, when he saw Christ as a distinct and different person at God's right hand in this verse -
Acts 7:55-56 - “But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, and said, 'Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!'.”

The scripture you quoted in no way says Stephen saw God, rather he saw the glory of God.And Jesus. The phrase right hand is a metaphor.

Also, Revelation Chapters 4 and 5 detail how the Lamb (Christ) was the only one worthy to collect the scroll from God, seated on the throne. Another clear example of the distinctness of God and Christ - surely they are two persons.

Like i said in my earlier post to boomark, THEY ARE NOT SEPARATE ENTITIES but distinct personalities and that is why Jesus is called God the Son.

Rev 5:6,7 - "Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing at the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. The Lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth. He went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne".

Was God collecting scroll from himself, his other half being seated on the throne?

You yourself should look at the verse you quoted closely, If God created us in His image and likeness,while should Jesus have seven horns and seven eyes Does it make sense to you also using your own logic? You should also be careful quoting revelations which is always symbolic and metaphorical.Scripture has already established that all heaven is the throne of God and the Earth is His footstool.

Or in Psalms 110:1 "Jehovah said unto my Lord, Sit at my right hand, until I put thine enemies as footstool of thy feet".

Was Jehovah talking to himself - telling himself to sit at his own right hand? ( Note that Jesus himself confirmed that this Psalm 110:1 scripture, written by David was about him - Matt 22:42-46).

Isaiah said God saw and was shocked there was no man to intervene;so His own arm worked salvation for Him and His OWN righteousness sustained Him.(Is 59:16) The only person to redeem Mankind is God Himself.

Bros, throw away rubbish traditional teaching and believe the clear and simple truths in the Bible.

Rather, you need to throw away this demonic heretic teaching about Jesus being an independent spirit being or an angel created by God . It is actually blasphemous.

truthislight:


from those on red ^^^



See , Jesus has a begining from that, see below:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (John 1:1).
..................

From that ^, it is obviouse that Jesus christ have a begining. His start was "in the begining".

But the almighty/true God has no begining:

but the father, the true God has no begining:

1 Timothy 1:17
Amplified Bible (AMP)


"Now to the King of eternity,[color=#990000] incorruptible and immortal, invisible, the only God,[color=#990000] be honor and glory forever and ever".(1timothy 1:17)
.....................

The almighty is and has always been there from eternity to eternity.

So, your statement above is plain falsehood.

Read ^ and upgrade.

Peace

You try..Did you consider Genesis account? In the beginning God created....... so here too the beginning was before God abi? You no get case jare.

truthislight:


from those on red ^^^



See , Jesus has a begining from that, see below:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (John 1:1).
..................

From that ^, it is obviouse that Jesus christ have a begining. His start was "in the begining".

But the almighty/true God has no begining:

but the father, the true God has no begining:

1 Timothy 1:17
Amplified Bible (AMP)


"Now to the King of eternity,[color=#990000] incorruptible and immortal, invisible, the only God,[color=#990000] be honor and glory forever and ever".(1timothy 1:17)
.....................

The almighty is and has always been there from eternity to eternity.

So, your statement above is plain falsehood.

Read ^ and upgrade.

Peace

thanks a lot bro. He wanted me to digress when i caught him insinuating that the death, resurrection and exaltation is just a role which has no significance on Jesus' status because he has be co-equal with God.

He did not know the reason why our Lord died and resurrect.
Rom 14:9
Christ died and rose again for this
very purpose--to be Lord both of
the living and of the dead.

when he saw this, he still maintained that God should do the reasoning. What then is the joy of a Christian who don't know why he died(sacrifice for the forgiveness of sin) and resurrection(Lord over all, Rom 14:9)?

@Bidam
I still want to know if i hate the truth just like the devil. So we are just beginning.

I saw the spirit of confusion(Olaadegbu) peeping last night. For his information, this is question and answer things not random and parallel quoting of scriptures.

Boomark:

You are now giving me ADVICE base on human reasoning. I thought we are looking at the scriptures. Many people will like to know the truth. You are losing confidence on the Truth by saying God should do the reasoning on things he told us through Christ.

First, trinity became a mystery, now the exaltation our Lord by his death and resurrection is foolishness and of no significance because you are defending co-equality and trinity invented by men.

Start from here

Rom 14:9
Christ died and rose again for this
very purpose--to be Lord both of
the living and of the dead.

Tell the world that he was not made Lord after his resurrection. Lets do it scripture for scripture. Don't give human advice.

If you think the bible appeals to your logic and human reasoning, then it's high time you join the atheist league. Last time i checked they believe everything about Jesus is illogical and nonsensical.
"In Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form". —Colossians 2:9

[b][/b]
Trinity relate Questions:

1)Does the Father and Son have different personalities? YES, Matt 3:16,17- while Jesus was baptised here on earth a voice was heared from heaven, so they are too individaul. A number of vision recorded in the bible show the son of man stand before, at the right hand, and sitting at the right hand of the Father.

2)Does the Son have his own will different to that of the Father? YES, While Jesus was praying and his sweat was like the drop of blood- Matt 26:39,42,44- Jesus said,"O my father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from me; Nevertheless, not as I WILL, but as YOU WILL. John 5:30-" I do not seek my own will but the will of the Father who sent me." John 5:20-"the father shows the Son what he does"-two individuals have to be there.

3)If God is believed by many to be all knowing, Is Father, the Son and the Holy spirit all knowing? NO, Mark 13:32-" But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in the heaven nor the SON, BUT ONLY THE FATHER".

4)If Monotheism is believe in one God, how is can we explain three GOD(father, Son and holy spirit) as being ONE when they each different personality and location? The word used to describe the 'oneness' of the Father, Son and holy spirit is still the word used to describe the 'oneness' between a man and a woman, so their meaning is still the same (same word translated one in ENGLISH).

5)Since Jesus is the Faithful and True witness, What did he Say about his relationship with his Father?

a) He called the one in heaven Father, why? Why not use another term like Partner, Mate etc to describe their relation.
b)John 14:28-"the father is greater than I am"
c)He called him his God, why would he do that? John 20:17, Rev 3:12,14

6) What did the apostles who grew up with Jesus think about his relationship with the Father?

a) Paul said," the Head of Christ is GOD just as the head of Woman is Man"- 1 cor 11:3- What role does a man play in a marriage? See the other comparison like Christ and the Congregation.

b) Hebrew 5: 7,8-"....and was heard because of his GODLY FEAR. Though he was a SON he LEARNED OBEDIENCE...." Jesus had godly fear for the Father just like us and he was obedient to him till the end.

c) John said," No one has seen God AT ANY TIME"- he saw Jesus, so who was he talking about,I believe the one he worship.

d)James Said of the God he worship, "...for God cannot be tempted by evil....", that Jesus was tempted is a fact non can disprove-Matt 4:1-11, Luke 4:2-13, You notice that Satan did not treat Jesus the way the demons did (Not like he address the Father in the case of Job), he did not treat him as his superior, notice how Jesus answered-he did not curse satan, neither abuse him nor remind him of being superior but he mentioned that worship should go to WHO? HIMSELF? Or the FATHER!


The fact is Jesus is a MIGHTY GOD but he did not want us to pray to him nor do we pray to him. Yes he is the Son of God- so what Adam was God's son the same way too- Luke 3:38, the difference is the word "Begotten, First born". The angels are Sons of God too. I really don't understand how someone who was SENT and does ALL THECOMMAND is equal to the Sender.

As par the Holy Spirit- Jesus was anionted with the holy spirit, does that mean another God was possessing Jesus the whole time. How is it that 120, then later thousands were possessed by one entity-The holy Spirit when common Sense tells us that one or more demon can possess one person at a time.

DO YOU KNOW THE FIRST TiME PEOPLE THOUGHT JESUS WAS EQUAL WITH GOD IS IN THE BIBLE AND HAD JESUS EXPLAIN HE WAS EQUAL HE WOULD HAVE BEEN STONED TO DEATH BEFORE HIS TIME. (READ John 5:16-20)

Bidam:
If God created us in His image and likeness,while should Jesus have seven horns and seven eyes Does it make sense to you also using your own logic? You should also be careful quoting revelations which is always symbolic and metaphorical.Scripture has already established that all heaven is the throne of God and the Earth is His footstool.
Or in Psalms 110:1 "Jehovah said unto my Lord, Sit at my right hand, until I put thine enemies as footstool of thy feet".

Isaiah said God saw and was shocked there was no man to intervene;so His own arm worked salvation for Him and His OWN righteousness sustained Him.(Is 59:16) The only person to redeem Mankind is God Himself.

Guy, what do you smoke ?
Please, pass it over, i need to take it to the lab for testing

Bidam: You try..Did you consider Genesis account? In the beginning God created....... so here too the beginning was before God abi? You no get case jare.

Did you see that ^ on red ?

It qualifies what was happening at Genesis > that God was creating, was working.

RikoduoSennin: [b][/b]
Trinity relate Questions:

1)Does the Father and Son have different personalities? YES, Matt 3:16,17- while Jesus was baptised here on earth a voice was heared from heaven, so they are too individaul. A number of vision recorded in the bible show the son of man stand before, at the right hand, and sitting at the right hand of the Father.

2)Does the Son have his own will different to that of the Father? YES, While Jesus was praying and his sweat was like the drop of blood- Matt 26:39,42,44- Jesus said,"O my father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from me; Nevertheless, not as I WILL, but as YOU WILL. John 5:30-" I do not seek my own will but the will of the Father who sent me." John 5:20-"the father shows the Son what he does"-two individuals have to be there.

3)If God is believed by many to be all knowing, Is Father, the Son and the Holy spirit all knowing? NO, Mark 13:32-" But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in the heaven nor the SON, BUT ONLY THE FATHER".

4)If Monotheism is believe in one God, how is can we explain three GOD(father, Son and holy spirit) as being ONE when they each different personality and location? The word used to describe the 'oneness' of the Father, Son and holy spirit is still the word used to describe the 'oneness' between a man and a woman, so their meaning is still the same (same word translated one in ENGLISH).

5)Since Jesus is the Faithful and True witness, What did he Say about his relationship with his Father?

a) He called the one in heaven Father, why? Why not use another term like Partner, Mate etc to describe their relation.
b)John 14:28-"the father is greater than I am"
c)He called him his God, why would he do that? John 20:17, Rev 3:12,14

6) What did the apostles who grew up with Jesus think about his relationship with the Father?

a) Paul said," the Head of Christ is GOD just as the head of Woman is Man"- 1 cor 11:3- What role does a man play in a marriage? See the other comparison like Christ and the Congregation.

b) Hebrew 5: 7,8-"....and was heard because of his GODLY FEAR. Though he was a SON he LEARNED OBEDIENCE...." Jesus had godly fear for the Father just like us and he was obedient to him till the end.

c) John said," No one has seen God AT ANY TIME"- he saw Jesus, so who was he talking about,I believe the one he worship.

d)James Said of the God he worship, "...for God cannot be tempted by evil....", that Jesus was tempted is a fact non can disprove-Matt 4:1-11, Luke 4:2-13, You notice that Satan did not treat Jesus the way the demons did (Not like he address the Father in the case of Job), he did not treat him as his superior, notice how Jesus answered-he did not curse satan, neither abuse him nor remind him of being superior but he mentioned that worship should go to WHO? HIMSELF? Or the FATHER!


The fact is Jesus is a MIGHTY GOD but he did not want us to pray to him nor do we pray to him. Yes he is the Son of God- so what Adam was God's son the same way too- Luke 3:38, the difference is the word "Begotten, First born". The angels are Sons of God too. I really don't understand how someone who was SENT and does ALL THECOMMAND is equal to the Sender.

As par the Holy Spirit- Jesus was anionted with the holy spirit, does that mean another God was possessing Jesus the whole time. How is it that 120, then later thousands were possessed by one entity-The holy Spirit when common Sense tells us that one or more demon can possess one person at a time.

DO YOU KNOW THE FIRST TiME PEOPLE THOUGHT JESUS WAS EQUAL WITH GOD IS IN THE BIBLE AND HAD JESUS EXPLAIN HE WAS EQUAL HE WOULD HAVE BEEN STONED TO DEATH BEFORE HIS TIME. (READ John 5:16-20)

Dont mind trinitarians, it is the Demonic power and imfluence that some of them use to do magic that is deceiving them.