TroGunn:

But clearly Christ is 2nd highest in the universe, from the Bible. After his resurrection, he was elevated and given authority above all others - of course only God who gave him authority is above him (and this makes him 2nd highest in the universe, God being the Most High):

That is your opinion..not scriptures.

1 Cor 15: 25-28: "For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all".

Good. does it diminish the fact that God(Jesus) first came down from heaven.? Like i maintain God is not greater or older in the sense that you think.Read my initial post and learn.

Squirm all you want, the truth stares you starkly in the face. I don't know why you like being pummelled over this Trinity issue time and again. Obviously, it's falsehood and non-alliance with the Bible disturbs you. You know you can just thrash the Trinity crap teaching and let the truth set you free.

Who is squirming? Rather you have no rebuttals with the abundant scriptures i quoted on the deity of Christ. You just jumped into the thread yesterday and you expect me to take you serious? Go through the first page and provide explanations to the scriptures i shared, then i will know you mean't business.As of now, you are the guy squirming. . Atleast i was gentlemanly enof to reply some of your ridiculous post, next time i may overlook them.

Boomark: @bidam
colossians 2:9
New International Version
For in Christ all the fullness of the
Deity lives in bodily form,

New Living Translation
For in Christ lives all the fullness of
God in a human body.

King James Bible
For in him dwelleth all the fulness
of the Godhead bodily.

If you believe he has the fullness of deity in him, then you Must not say he is half Man half God unless you have scriptural proof that he is half half, if not, then you show us the pastor that taught you that.

Please tell me what you understood is the meaning of word "Godhead."

Or you might want me to start with Isa 40:3 by telling me why you quoted it?

Maybe you can ask your brother frosbel where he saw the phrase half-man and half-god.

FOR THE jw fellows, let's start with these, instead of asking random haphazard questions in an attempt to ridicule. I won't be entertaining silly and ridiculous questions beyond these.THANKS.

here is my stand.

There is a threeness in Scripture: Matthew 28:19; 1 Peter 1:2; Ephesians 2:18; 2 Corinthians 13:14; John 15:26.

There is only One God. Deuteronomy 4:35-39; 6:4; Isaiah 43: 10-12; 44:6,8; 45:5-6,14,21; 46:9; 1 Timothy 1:17;6:15-16.

Three distinct persons: Matthew 3:16-17; Luke 3:21-22; John 1:1; 6:38-40; 15:26; 16:28; 17:5; Acts 5:31-32.

Jesus is God. John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17; Hebrews 1:5-9; John 9:38; 2 Corinthians 11:3; John 20:28-29; Revelation 5:8-9; 22:20

The Spirit is God. Romans 8:9-16; Luke 1:35; 1 John 4:12-16; 1 Corinthians 3:16 vs. 1 Corinthians 6:19;

They are equal in nature, glory, and honor. John 5:18; 5:23; Colossians 2:9-10; (Isaiah 44:6; Revelation 1:8 vs. Revelation 1:17-18; 22:13)

They differ in role and rank. 1 Corinthians 11:3; 1 Corinthians 15:25-28; Matthew 12:18,21; Ephesians 1:3,17; John 1:33; 14:16,26,28; Romans 8:26-27.

Oya..lets go there.

^^^^

You are making of mockery of the gospel and turning scripture on its head.

The truth is that there is not much difference between your gospel and that of the Catholic church which believes in a hydra headed Pagan concept called Trinity.

Trinity is forced into scripture and shamefully tries to divide ONE Person called Almighty God into 3 parts.

Keep on wallowing in your PAGAN 'god' affair.

Bidam: Maybe you can ask your brother frosbel where he saw the phrase half-man and half-god.

your Jesus is not a FULL MAN , he is half god and half man.

frosbel: ^^^^

You are making of mockery of the gospel and turning scripture on its head.

The truth is that there is not much difference between your gospel and that of the Catholic church which believes in a hydra headed Pagan concept called Trinity.

Trinity is forced into scripture and shamefully tries to divide ONE Person called Almighty God into 3 parts.

Keep on wallowing in your PAGAN 'god' affair.

As emusan rightly said..where would this lead me if according to you i wallow in it

frosbel:

your Jesus is not a FULL MAN , he is half god and half man.

The Jesus you know cannot and did not save the world..Mine did scriptures backed me up..Yours is an illusion cooked up by your cult Jw.

Bidam: The Jesus you know cannot and did not save the world..Mine did scriptures backed me up..Yours is an illusion cooked up by your cult Jw.

If Jesus was not a MAN then he is an anti-christ Jesus you believe in.

I believe in the Messiah who came in 100% flesh and blood, not flesh and spirit

Bidam:

There is a threeness in Scripture: Matthew 28:19; 1 Peter 1:2; Ephesians 2:18; 2 Corinthians 13:14; John 15:26.

So you are saying each time one list Peter,James and John that invariably signify threeness because 1 pet 1:2 mentions Spirit, blood and Water (Jesus says the Father is Spirit, the holy SPIRIT, christ in Heaven is Spirit because flesh and blood can't enter God's Kingdom.

Bidam:
There is only One God. Deuteronomy 4:35-39; 6:4; Isaiah 43: 10-12; 44:6,8; 45:5-6,14,21; 46:9; 1 Timothy 1:17;6:15-16.

No argument here, but I still don't See how Ogun, Sango and Amadioha can be God
and yet you call them one. John 17:3 says ONE TRUE God, why is that?

Bidam:
Three distinct persons: Matthew 3:16-17; Luke 3:21-22; John 1:1; 6:38-40; 15:26; 16:28; 17:5; Acts 5:31-32.

Oh Yes, distinct/different persons with different location, meqaning they are not Fused together, they have different will, So they can't be one in a Physical sense.

Bidam:
Jesus is God. John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17; Hebrews 1:5-9; John 9:38; 2 Corinthians 11:3; John 20:28-29; Revelation 5:8-9; 22:20

Yes, Isaiah said a Mighty God. NB: original hebrew/greek did not specify Capital letter "G" or small case "g
" in its use through out the bible. Only translators to English dicided to use the cases to differentiate between idols and the true God. So the word Elohim was used extensively in the bible.

Bidam:
The Spirit is God. Romans 8:9-16; Luke 1:35; 1 John 4:12-16; 1 Corinthians 3:16 vs. 1 Corinthians 6:19;

Really? So when Jesus was anionted with the spirit in John 4:1- we can say he was possessed by another God, so there were two Gods inside the body of Jesus( remember you said they are distinct persons). When the 120 receive the holy spirit they were all possessed by a God( the holy spirit)-what then did they become( were their minds and the holy spirit competing for who will be dominate inside their bodies?)

Bidam:
They are equal in nature, glory, and honor. John 5:18; 5:23; Colossians 2:9-10; (Isaiah 44:6; Revelation 1:8 vs. Revelation 1:17-18; 22:13)

Equal in glory? How is it then Jesus said all power has been given to me, if he had it in the past how could Satan have tempted him with the Kingdoms of the world? Heb 5:1, 10 calls Jesus a high Priest, a high Priest to who?, can the high priest of Ogun be the Same Ogun?

Bidam:
They differ in role and rank. 1 Corinthians 11:3; 1 Corinthians 15:25-28; Matthew 12:18,21; Ephesians 1:3,17; John 1:33; 14:16,26,28; Romans 8:26-27.

The word "Rank" speak for it self, it Shows superiority. Your company manager and the CEO who is more likely to have the final Say? Should a child respect his Mother at the expense of his Father?




And you forgot about, Did Jesus have a God, YES, the Father!!!- John 20:17, Rev 3:12 e.t.c. Hebrew 1:9- the apostle Paul said Jesus has a God who anionted him(Jesus) more than his PARTNERS.

frosbel:

If Jesus was not a MAN then he is an anti-christ Jesus you believe in.

I believe in the Messiah who came in 100% flesh and blood, not flesh and spirit

May be you did not read scripture properly.
It specifically said God was made manifest in the flesh(1 tim3:16) it's either Paul is lying which i don't think he is or You are.

Even Apostle John buttress it further by saying every spirit that does not aknowlegde Jesus(God) coming in the flesh has the spirit of antichrist( 1 john4:3). In other words you have qualified yourself here.

[quote author=RikoduoSennin]

So you are saying each time one list Peter,James and John that invariably signify threeness because 1 pet 1:2 mentions Spirit, blood and Water (Jesus says the Father is Spirit, the holy SPIRIT, christ in Heaven is Spirit because flesh and blood can't enter God's Kingdom.

Mat 28:19 has God the Father,God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

No argument here, but I still don't See how Ogun, Sango and Amadioha can be God
and yet you call them one. John 17:3 says ONE TRUE God, why is that?

You omitted and Jesus Christ whom you have sent...Which also reconcile what John was saying in John 1 that the Word was God and this Word(God) became flesh and came from the father.(John1 :14)

Oh Yes, distinct/different persons with different location, meqaning they are not Fused together, they have different will, So they can't be one in a Physical sense.

God the father is Spirit. He is bigger and infinitely limitless than what your small mind can grasp or even think of.It has been scripturaly established that the vast heaven is His throne and the vast earth is His footstool.His wisdom is multidimensional and multifaceted, the only way He can make Man see Him is to send His Word(Jesus) who is the image of the invisible God and the physical representative of God by the way. Jesus said if you have seen me definitely you have seen the Father.Jesus describe the uniqueness of this oneness by saying I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE.

Yes, Isaiah said a Mighty God. NB: original hebrew/greek did not specify Capital letter "G" or small case "g
" in its use through out the bible. Only translators to English dicided to use the cases to differentiate between idols and the true God. So the word Elohim was used extensively in the bible.

Then maybe you should discard the English bible and stick with Greek or Latin. The truth of the matter is Jesus is deity,so MANY scripture validates this. it's either you accept it or reject it.

Really? So when Jesus was anionted with the spirit in John 4:1- we can say he was possessed by another God, so there were two Gods inside the body of Jesus( remember you said they are distinct persons). When the 120 receive the holy spirit they were all possessed by a God( the holy spirit)-what then did they become( were their minds and the holy spirit competing for who will be dominate inside their bodies?)

The Holy Spirit is not an it or a thing.He is not a force neither is He a mist,cloud or smoke, He is also not a feeling.

He is God.He is a person.He comforts,convicts,teaches,guides and can be grieved though He is invisible.

Equal in glory? How is it then Jesus said all power has been given to me, if he had it in the past how could Satan have tempted him with the Kingdoms of the world? Heb 5:1, 10 calls Jesus a high Priest, a high Priest to who?, can the high priest of Ogun be the Same Ogun?

Yes co-equal and co-eternal.What do you believe? I believe the bible as the infallible word of God. I believe everything written there in as absolute and eternal truth. I believe with a conviction in my heart that God the father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit is clearly and distinctly stated in it.I don't believe in one or two of them but three of them as one.What do you believe? As for high priest etc etc...i explained them check other posts.

The word "Rank" speak for it self, it Shows superiority. Your company manager and the CEO who is more likely to have the final Say? Should a child respect his Mother at the expense of his Father?

Rank in this case signifies class or order not superiority.

And you forgot about, Did Jesus have a God, YES, the Father!!!- John 20:17, Rev 3:12 e.t.c. Hebrew 1:9- the apostle Paul said Jesus has a God who anionted him(Jesus) more than his PARTNERS.

Both Jesus and the Spirit proceeded from the father to accomplish the work that needed and still needs to be done on earth.Jesus was sent by the father to redeem us( and i have no problem with that neither do other trinitarians, i can see those scriptures are the points of your arguments). The Spirit was sent by Jesus to empower us( Do you believe in the baptism of the Holy Spirit? I GUESS NOT) Jesus was sent to restore us: the Spirit was sent to release us into a new kingdom.

Bidam: May be you did not read scripture properly.
It specifically said God was made manifest in the flesh(1 tim3:16) it's either Paul is lying which i don't think he is or You are.

Even Apostle John buttress it further by saying every spirit that does not aknowlegde Jesus(God) coming in the flesh has the spirit of antichrist( 1 john4:3). In other words you have qualified yourself here.

Apostle John never called Jesus God, you did.

You changed Jesus to God, falsely interjecting into Johns statement which is what false prophets normally do when twising scripture.

"but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world." - 1 John 4:3

Lets read this and engage our brains this time :

- John says Jesus is from GOD, note - he never says Jesus is GOD.
- Then he says, any spirit that does not acknowledge that Jesus is from God is Antichrist

The Trinity is Antichrist, because among other reasons it does not acknowledge that Jesus is from God, it believes that Jesus is God himself, something tantamount to blasphemy.

Now lets also examine the other antichrist verse :

"This is how you can recognize God's Spirit: Every spirit who acknowledges that Jesus the Messiah has become human—and remains so—is from God. " - 1 John 4:2

Again, John makes a clear demarcation between God and Jesus, Jesus here referred to as the Messiah.

He then says that every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus came as a human is of GOD, conversely any spirit that suggests otherwise is of Antichrist.

The Trinity is Antichrist because it suggests that Jesus was not fully human, he was 50% God and 50% Man, again blasphemy for God is indivisible.


I know it is difficult to leave a tradition held by the majority of Christendom, but Jesus never said the road will be easy. The road to the real truth is narrow and very very few are those who enter in.

Bidam:
That is your opinion..not scriptures.

Good. does it diminish the fact that God(Jesus) first came down from heaven.? Like i maintain God is not greater or older in the sense that you think.Read my initial post and learn.

Please explain in what sense God is not greater or in higher authority than Christ in the following verses:

(1) A person (Jesus) can be equal to his God (John 17:20).
(2) The Father is greater than the Son (John 14:28), yet they are equal.
(3) The Father gives the Son authority, and the Son subjects himself to God (1 Cor 15:27,28), yet they are equal.
(4) The Father is the head of the Son (1 Cor 11:3), yet they are equal.
(5) The Father's will dominates that of the son (Luke 22:42), yet they are equal.
(6) The Father sent the Son (John 17:3), but they are equal.
(7) The Son cannot speak of his own originality but what the father tells him (John 7:17; 14:10), yet they are equal.
(8.) The Father gave the Son a revelation (Rev 1:1), yet they equal.
(9) The Father resurrected the Son (2 Cor 4:14), yet they are equal.
(10) The Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative (John 5:19) but does what he beholds the Father doing, yet he is equal to the father anyway.
(11) The Father is the ONLY TRUE GOD and Jesus is the one He sent (John 17:3), yet they are equal.
(12) Jesus doesnt have the power to grant the sitting at his right or left, but his Father does (Matt 20:20-23), yet they are equal.
(13) Blasphemy against the Son will be forgiven but blasphemy against the holy spirit will not be forgiven (Matt 12:31,32), yet they are the same.
(14) Christ is said to be messenger for God ( Mal 3:1)
(15) Christ is said to be a priest for God (Heb 5:1-10)

Who is squirming? Rather you have no rebuttals with the abundant scriptures i quoted on the deity of Christ. You just jumped into the thread yesterday and you expect me to take you serious? Go through the first page and provide explanations to the scriptures i shared, then i will know you mean't business.As of now, you are the guy squirming. . Atleast i was gentlemanly enof to reply some of your ridiculous post, next time i may overlook them.

I read your post on 1st page and the responses and it did seem it was answered. Anyway, just so your hear it again, let's go over the two verses you mentioned and seem to cling on to as "proof" that Jesus is Almighty God - Rev 1:8 and Col 2:9.

Rev 1:8

This verse clearly references the Almighty God Jehovah, the Bible consistently uses the "Jehovah God" ( which some translator render as "LORD God" for the Almighty Jehovah alone.

Here's how one bible translation put it:

"I am The Alap and The Tau, says THE LORD JEHOVAH God, he who is and has been and is coming, The Almighty". (Aramaic Bible in Plain English)

Col 2:9

Here's how that verse is rendered in a few translations:

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For the entire fullness of God's nature dwells bodily in Christ,

International Standard Version
because all the essence of deity inhabits him in bodily form.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For all The Fullness of The Deity dwells in him bodily.

King James 2000 Bible
For in him dwells all the fullness of the Deity bodily.

Webster's Bible Translation
For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

Weymouth New Testament
For it is in Christ that the fulness of God's nature dwells embodied, and in Him you are made complete,

New World Translation
Because it is in him that all the fullness of the divine quality dwells bodily

And here's the context:

Col 2:3, 6-9 - "In whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live your lives in him, rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness. See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ, For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form",

What is this verse talking about? Christians are here warned against deceptive human philosophies, but told to take root and be built up in Christ. In verse 3, Christ is said to have "all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge" and this is because of "fullness of God's nature/divinity/deity" that dwells in him (verse 9).

This does not prove that having that "fullness" makes him the Almighty God. Christ had always said that all he knows and teaches is from the Father (John 7:17; 14:10). He does nothing by himself.

Also Col 3:1 clearly again shows Christ to be different, again at God's right hand - "Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God".

Also Col 1:9 shows who gave Christ that "fullness" - "For it pleased the Father that in him should all fullness dwell".

Nothing in Col 2:9 supports equality with God Almighty - it's another verse that shows Christ is empowered by Jehovah, the God Almighty.

Always remember that the term "god" means "powerful/mighty one", and has been used for lesser beings than the very powerful and exalted Christ. So it can technically be used for Christ ( as in Isa 9:6 and John 1:1), as long as one knows that Christ is a messenger/worker for the one and only Almighty God Jehovah; and Christ remains subordinate to the Almighty - before he came to earth ( Ps 110:1), while he was on earth (John 14:28) and after he was resurrected (1Cor 15: 25-28; Dan 7:13).

Bidam: I don't read jw bible.How can i defend what i don't read.

So you speak on hearsay? grow up.

Bidam: This are basic teachings in secular schools. Your temple addicts no tell you? ANYWAY GOOGLE IS YOUR FRIEND.

oga, I said you not google. answer the question.

No i don't have a finite mind. The God of the Bible is invisible and cannot be seen except if He reveals Himself to us in a three-dimensional form that we can see. A being which exists in dimensions beyond our three spatial dimensions would be invisible to creatures (us) that can only exist in the confines of our universe.

I understand you mean to say, infinite. Am I correct?

foolish..the post clearly depict i was talking trinity.

As oppose to what?

yawns..rather it gave me a headache.

Eyah! the lifeline is there, you must be frazzled. gaga things.

Bidam: FOR THE jw fellows, let's start with these, instead of asking random haphazard questions in an attempt to ridicule. I won't be entertaining silly and ridiculous questions beyond these.THANKS.

here is my stand.

There is a threeness in Scripture: Matthew 28:19; 1 Peter 1:2; Ephesians 2:18; 2 Corinthians 13:14; John 15:26.

ok, but ruminate 1 Tim. 5:21

There is only One God. Deuteronomy 4:35-39; 6:4; Isaiah 43: 10-12; 44:6,8; 45:5-6,14,21; 46:9; 1 Timothy 1:17;6:15-16.

Yes, there is only one God to whom we owe our worship, not three.

Three distinct persons: Matthew 3:16-17; Luke 3:21-22; John 1:1; 6:38-40; 15:26; 16:28; 17:5; Acts 5:31-32.

Elucidate how this makes them three.

Also tell me how the bold does not attack your point.

Jesus is God. John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17; Hebrews 1:5-9; John 9:38; 2 Corinthians 11:3; John 20:28-29; Revelation 5:8-9; 22:20

I cant see how those scriptures support your point. shade more light.

When you say He is God, do you mean he is God intoto, he is everything God is? knowing all God knows? God, not superior/greater to/than him?

The Spirit is God. Romans 8:9-16; Luke 1:35; 1 John 4:12-16; 1 Corinthians 3:16 vs. 1 Corinthians 6:19;

Tell me how they support the assertion that it is God.

They are equal in nature, glory, and honor. John 5:18; 5:23; Colossians 2:9-10; (Isaiah 44:6; Revelation 1:8 vs. Revelation 1:17-18; 22:13)

You also call God your Fathar shey? john 5, ruminate verse 19. John 17:5 as you quoted above is your partner, calibrate it by verse 22 of chapter 5.

You are already discussing col. 2:9, who gave him a fullness? check 1:19

They differ in role and rank. 1 Corinthians 11:3; 1 Corinthians 15:25-28; Matthew 12:18,21; Ephesians 1:3,17; John 1:33; 14:16,26,28; Romans 8:26-27.

Then, they are not equal in everything, at least in rank. Not even in knowledge.

@Bidam,


My Matt 28:19 did not READ THUS "....God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit". Please be really careful of adding to the Scriptures, there mentioned Name not Titles.

So because the father, Son, holy spirit is mentioned one after the other, that invariably means "threeness". So as many times the bible Mention Peter, James and John, they have their own threeness eh!

If Jesus was called the Son of Man and the Son of God, did the Father have a spirit wife? In what manner was he called the Son of God? In like Matter as Adam was called the Son of God, and the Angels are called Sons of God. It is not exclusive to Jesus. Hence the use "Firstborn" in the Scriptures.


So you are saying John 1:14 means Jesus is a split personallity of the Father, that means before Abraham he wasn't since he is still inside the Father.

So Satan must be really powerful to tempt God(Jesus) with the Worlds Kingdom and Even ask him to do an act of Worship to him. I wonder who create God. So some people have Clapped and Spat in God's Face- they must be legends!


You said the holy Spirit is a person, prove it! How did is it the holy Spirit possess the body of Christ and the thousands of disciples all by it self.

Co-equal is not consistence with the word "rank", "Class" or "Order" you used. In the Catholic order-members of different Class are they equal.

Co-eternal? Doubtful, Well, Jesus died didn't he? Did the Father die ever in history, NO! If any form of Jesus was alive he would not have needed a Ressurection ( which how faith hangs on).

If you believe Thomas who said,"My lord My God" to Jesus, Why don't you believe Jesus words "My God"-John 20:17, Rev 1:12. Thomas said his ones, Jesus said his at least twice, who of the two should be believe.

If you do not believe Jesus' word, I rest my case.

Afterall That is what this three Scriptures have in common: 2 Tim 3:7, 1 Tim 1:6,7 and 2 Thess 2:11,12.

All this argument came from the stupid translators who refuse to put the Personal Name of God-YHWH where they originally existed because of supersticious beliefs-(Thou shall not Use the Name of the Lord in vain), Something Written in the original Manuscript. You don't call your dog, Dog do you? YHWY was written in the original manuscript to identify who is who, not this Lord and God which apply to many people.

[quote author=frosbel]

Apostle John never called Jesus God, you did.

You are day dreaming what is your bible saying in John 1:1?

You changed Jesus to God, falsely interjecting into Johns statement which is what false prophets normally do when twising scripture.

You can do better than to falsely accuse me of such.

"but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world." - 1 John 4:3

Lets read this and engage our brains this time :

- John says Jesus is from GOD, note - he never says Jesus is GOD.
- Then he says, any spirit that does not acknowledge that Jesus is from God is Antichrist

So you now agree Jesus is the WORD and He preexisted his birth?

The Trinity is Antichrist, because among other reasons it does not acknowledge that Jesus is from God, it believes that Jesus is God himself, something tantamount to blasphemy.

The trinity is not. You are.

Now lets also examine the other antichrist verse :

"This is how you can recognize God's Spirit: Every spirit who acknowledges that Jesus the Messiah has become human—and remains so—is from God. " - 1 John 4:2

Again, John makes a clear demarcation between God and Jesus, Jesus here referred to as the Messiah.

He then says that every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus came as a human is of GOD, conversely any spirit that suggests otherwise is of Antichrist.

The Trinity is Antichrist because it suggests that Jesus was not fully human, he was 50% God and 50% Man, again blasphemy for God is indivisible.

Let's assume i agree with your erroneous analysis.Are you saying Paul is an antichrist? I can see you wisely dodged the scripture i quoted when Paul said God was made manifest in the flesh.

I know it is difficult to leave a tradition held by the majority of Christendom, but Jesus never said the road will be easy. The road to the real truth is narrow and very very few are those who enter in.

Thanks..But this time they are right, i searched the scriptures myself.

[quote author=TroGunn]

Please explain in what sense God is not greater or in higher authority than Christ in the following verses:

(1) A person (Jesus) can be equal to his God (John 17:20).
(2) The Father is greater than the Son (John 14:28), yet they are equal.
(3) The Father gives the Son authority, and the Son subjects himself to God (1 Cor 15:27,28), yet they are equal.
(4) The Father is the head of the Son (1 Cor 11:3), yet they are equal.
(5) The Father's will dominates that of the son (Luke 22:42), yet they are equal.
(6) The Father sent the Son (John 17:3), but they are equal.
(7) The Son cannot speak of his own originality but what the father tells him (John 7:17; 14:10), yet they are equal.
(8.) The Father gave the Son a revelation (Rev 1:1), yet they equal.
(9) The Father resurrected the Son (2 Cor 4:14), yet they are equal.
(10) The Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative (John 5:19) but does what he beholds the Father doing, yet he is equal to the father anyway.
(11) The Father is the ONLY TRUE GOD and Jesus is the one He sent (John 17:3), yet they are equal.
(12) Jesus doesnt have the power to grant the sitting at his right or left, but his Father does (Matt 20:20-23), yet they are equal.
(13) Blasphemy against the Son will be forgiven but blasphemy against the holy spirit will not be forgiven (Matt 12:31,32), yet they are the same.
(14) Christ is said to be messenger for God ( Mal 3:1)
(15) Christ is said to be a priest for God (Heb 5:1-10)

Good. All the example you gave are summed up in what i have been repeating my self hoarse in this thread. Jesus is Spirit, God is Spirit, The Holy Spirit is Spirit,There is no greater or lesser Spirit in the Godhead, Jesus is not an angel neither is He an arc angel .The angels are actually lesser beings and are lower in the chain of command than believers.

God resides in us,Christ resides in us, the Holy Spirit resides in us. The question is why would scripture mention 3 and not 1?
Romans 8:9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. 10If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.…

My point is this scripture shows ALL as SPIRIT. scriptures records God hates idol worship and we know anyone that worship an idol commits idolatry by making an idol its deity. Jesus is not an idol with a small "g".He is not a lesser god like you pple paint Him.Jesus is worshiped in scripture. God is worshiped in scripture, The Holy Spirit is worshiped in scripture.

Just like i said before and i am still repeating again till you , The word FATHER doesn't mean secular father, if it means secualr father who is the mother The word Father refers to God's being the source from which Jesus was sent . Jesus did not exist as a person in heaven. He exist as THE WORD OF GOD. YOU CANNOT SEPARATE GOD FROM HIS WORD. The WORD now became flesh and dwelt among men. So when Jesus came to earth through the virgin birth by the Power of the Holy Ghost, He came as 100percent Man AND 100PERCENT GOD.So what the bible is saying is that God is ONE, but He expresses himself in three distinct personalities and dimensions. That is to say Both Jesus and the Spirit proceeded from the FATHER.

I read your post on 1st page and the responses and it did seem it was answered. Anyway, just so your hear it again, let's go over the two verses you mentioned and seem to cling on to as "proof" that Jesus is Almighty God - Rev 1:8 and Col 2:9.

Rev 1:8

This verse clearly references the Almighty God Jehovah, the Bible consistently uses the "Jehovah God" ( which some translator render as "LORD God" for the Almighty Jehovah alone.

Here's how one bible translation put it:

"I am The Alap and The Tau, says THE LORD JEHOVAH God, he who is and has been and is coming, The Almighty". (Aramaic Bible in Plain English)

Col 2:9

Here's how that verse is rendered in a few translations:

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For the entire fullness of God's nature dwells bodily in Christ,

International Standard Version
because all the essence of deity inhabits him in bodily form.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For all The Fullness of The Deity dwells in him bodily.

King James 2000 Bible
For in him dwells all the fullness of the Deity bodily.

Webster's Bible Translation
For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

Weymouth New Testament
For it is in Christ that the fulness of God's nature dwells embodied, and in Him you are made complete,

New World Translation
Because it is in him that all the fullness of the divine quality dwells bodily

And here's the context:

Col 2:3, 6-9 - "In whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live your lives in him, rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness. See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ, For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form",

What is this verse talking about? Christians are here warned against deceptive human philosophies, but told to take root and be built up in Christ. In verse 3, Christ is said to have "all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge" and this is because of "fullness of God's nature/divinity/deity" that dwells in him (verse 9).

This does not prove that having that "fullness" makes him the Almighty God. Christ had always said that all he knows and teaches is from the Father (John 7:17; 14:10). He does nothing by himself.

Also Col 3:1 clearly again shows Christ to be different, again at God's right hand - "Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God".

Also Col 1:9 shows who gave Christ that "fullness" - "For it pleased the Father that in him should all fullness dwell".

Nothing in Col 2:9 supports equality with God Almighty - it's another verse that shows Christ is empowered by Jehovah, the God Almighty.

Always remember that the term "god" means "powerful/mighty one", and has been used for lesser beings than the very powerful and exalted Christ. So it can technically be used for Christ ( as in Isa 9:6 and John 1:1), as long as one knows that Christ is a messenger/worker for the one and only Almighty God Jehovah; and Christ remains subordinate to the Almighty - before he came to earth ( Ps 110:1), while he was on earth (John 14:28) and after he was resurrected (1Cor 15: 25-28; Dan 7:13).

If the fullness of the deity dwells in Jesus while on Earth, should we not also desire such as Christians since our Body is the temple of the Holy Spirit and God dwells in us? Jesus is the PATTERN SON and God sent Him to show us holiness,raising the dead,walking on water,miracles,healing the sick and casting out satan is a possibility. We ought to emulate him and walk as he walked, since he came as flesh and blood, God allowed him to be tempted in every area to show us that we can overcome what the devil throws at us. The first Adam failed where the last Adam succeeded.
I understand Jehovah witness has twisted the bible and still continue to twist it to support this error that Jesus is not deity and hell is not real.

But pls don't be brainwashed,come out from among them and be ye separated and i will receive you. This is a prophecy from God to you trogunn.

Quoting and counter-quoting of bible verses with bidam is a waste of time. If you want to reduce his confidence in trinity doctrine to nothing, you must of focus your question on one thing at a time(eg. Godhead) untill he explains it to a biblical conclusion. You must not allow him to digress because that is where his power is.

I am a speaking out of experience and you will see say things like, "trinity is a mystery, it looks like foolishness, we should allow heaven to do the reasoning," assuming he is a catholic, he will say, "what makes you think you know more than us, don't you know we wrote the bible? we are the 1st church, etc." This will certainly happen when he has nothing to say anymore.

Let it be a question and answer things(teaching), if not, nothing will come out of this discussion.

Bidam: If the fullness of the deity dwells in
Jesus while on Earth, should we not
also desire such as Christians since
our Body is the temple of the Holy
Spirit and God dwells in us? Jesus is
the PATTERN SON and God sent Him
to show us holiness,raising the
dead, walking on
water,miracles,healing the sick and
casting out satan is a possibility.
We ought to emulate him and walk
as he walked, since he came as
flesh and blood, God allowed him
to be tempted in every area to
show us that we can overcome
what the devil throws at us. The
first Adam failed where the last
Adam succeeded.
I understand Jehovah witness has
twisted the bible and still continue
to twist it to support this error that
Jesus is not deity and hell is not
real.
But pls don't be brainwashed,come
out from among them and be ye
separated and i will receive you.
This is a prophecy from God to you
trogunn.

Hahaha! At least now Trogun has taught you something. That the fullness of the deity(Godhead), Col 2:9, which dwelt in Christ did not make him equal to God. We who are in Christ also have that fullness of the deity, Colossians 2:10. Does that make us God or His equal?

Trinity doctrine taught you that Godhead consist of 3 persons and you believe it not knowing that it is God's nature according to the scripture. I wonder who inspired such doctrine that contradicts the scripture.

And they did not also teach you that Godhead is something that belongs to God, Rom 1:20, "for since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen,... even His eternal power and Godhead..."

Even the glory of the one, whom Isaiah saw, has eluded their understanding. "And as for the arm of Jehovah, to whom has it been revealed?" Isa 53:1. You must desire the truth with humility to get it and remain in it.

Calling Jws names will not make what you said relevant, unless you are using it just to boost your confidence.

Boomark: Quoting and counter-quoting of bible verses with bidam is a waste of time. [size=16pt]If you want to reduce his confidence in trinity doctrine to nothing, you must of focus your question on one thing at a time(eg. Godhead) untill he explains it to a biblical conclusion. You must not allow him to digress because that is where his power is.[/size]

[size=16pt]I am a speaking out of experience and you will see say things like, "trinity is a mystery, it looks like foolishness, we should allow heaven to do the reasoning," assuming he is a catholic, he will say, "what makes you think you know more than us, don't you know we wrote the bible? we are the 1st church, etc." This will certainly happen when he has nothing to say anymore.
[/size]
Let it be a question and answer things(teaching), if not, nothing will come out of this discussion.

FOOLISH.This is not the only thread on trinity.
I can quote alot of nairalanders response to your foolish questions and when you were asked questions you ran away. Like this one for instance.

hisblud: @Boomark and Jmans

You have really made my day!
I asked this



@JMANS You answered thus


@bOOMARK
And you answered thus to the same question


Good!
Now you are claiming that David [bible] was inspired by God and boomark said the Holyspirit also inspired David..to say what is written in Heb 1.8. So you are by this submission pointing that the Holyspirit is God who inspired David that Paul quotes that speaks about Jesus Christ... do we agree?

VERY SILLY that you are not even in agreement with your fellow jman who loves asking random silly questions.

hisblud: or are you in agreement with jman that its God Who spoke about Jesus! Am in agreement with jman. Are you?

And funny enof you couldn't still answer..and you have the effrontery to come here and speak thrash about me weakening in confidence. You need to have your brains examined.

hisblud: So far, so good, let me summarize but not conclude on heb 1.8 and the response from ijawkid, jman and boomark.

I asked first of all, WHO was spoken about: to which they all agreed its Jesus Christ.

Secondly, WHO spoke about Jesus Christ in that verse? This was where problem started. They couldnt give a direct answer but rather dribble around it by claiming that david spoke it, while paul quoted it. When pressed ijawkid, was too dazed to answer, rather opted for silence or some diversionary antics. Jman concluded it was God's inspiration, boomark said it was the Holyspirit. Yet boomark disagreed that God is the Holyspirit Who spoke thru david that paul quotes about Jesus Christ. Finally, boomark agreed that its the revelation revealed by God. Thus we can safely summarise that God was the One not angel that spoke about Jesus.

Thirdly, hopefully frosbel might from the above answer, since God spoke thru, inspired, gave revelation thru david which paul quoted about Jesus Christ, WHAT was said, revealed about Jesus Christ in heb 1.8?

So can you pls enlighten us here WHAT was said, revealed about Jesus Christ in heb 1.8?

Boomark:

Hahaha! At least now Trogun has taught you something. That the fullness of the deity(Godhead), Col 2:9, which dwelt in Christ did not make him equal to God. We who are in Christ also have that fullness of the deity, Colossians 2:10. Does that make us God or His equal?

He taught me nothing.

Trinity doctrine taught you that Godhead consist of 3 persons and you believe it not knowing that it is God's nature according to the scripture. I wonder who inspired such doctrine that contradicts the scripture.

I wonder who inspired A STATEMENT below which floored you big time.

Boomark: Hebrews 1:8-9

King James Version (KJV)

8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

I think it is better this way so we can know how many Gods we are looking at.

And they did not also teach you that Godhead is something that belongs to God, Rom 1:20, "for since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen,... even His eternal power and Godhead..."

.The worlds were framed by the word of God. Jesus is the word of God.God CANNOT BE SEPARATE FROM HIS WORD.So who was HEB 1 : 8 referring to?

Even the glory of the one, whom Isaiah saw, has eluded their understanding. "And as for the arm of Jehovah, to whom has it been revealed?" Isa 53:1. You must desire the truth with humility to get it and remain in it.

Still in the business of quoting random scripture out of context i see. So who is the arm of the Lord? Who was it revealed to?

Calling Jws names will not make what you said relevant, unless you are using it just to boost your confidence.

Calling you a demon will be very relevant i guess.

JMAN05:

oga, I said you not google. answer the question.



I understand you mean to say, infinite. Am I correct?



As oppose to what?



Eyah! the lifeline is there, you must be frazzled. gaga things.

So you can see your question is irritable and makes no sense. Just like you were irritated at HEB 1 :8 that calls Jesus God. .

JMAN05: The question makes no sense. The bible is inspired of God.

yes my bible not NWT.

NWT WAS INSPIRED BY DEMONS.

Bidam:
The word FATHER doesn't mean secular father, if it means secualr father who is the mother The word Father refers to God's being the source from which Jesus was sent . Jesus did not exist as a person in heaven. He exist as THE WORD OF GOD. YOU CANNOT SEPARATE GOD FROM HIS WORD. The WORD now became flesh and dwelt among men. So when Jesus came to earth through the virgin birth by the Power of the Holy Ghost, He came as 100percent Man AND 100PERCENT GOD.So what the bible is saying is that God is ONE, but He expresses himself in three distinct personalities and dimensions. That is to say Both Jesus and the Spirit proceeded from the FATHER.

This is perfect term of Trinity but they won't agree because to them Holy spirit is just a force.

God: the Father..
The Son....is the word of the Father who became flesh in the person of Jesus Christ.
The Holyspirit.....the Spirit of the Father.

Bidam you've really tried with these people. Kudos!!!

Emusan:

This is perfect term of Trinity but they won't agree because to them Holy spirit is just a force.

God: the Father..
The Son....is the word of the Father who became flesh in the person of Jesus Christ.
The Holyspirit.....the Spirit of the Father.

Bidam you've really tried with these people. Kudos!!!

Bros... i guess the best thing is to ignore folks with religious spirits. Wish i could see them one on one and cast that devil out of them and not explain it on the internet.

That is if they are willing for that demon to be cast out of them.

Bidam: FOOLISH.This is not the only thread on trinity.
I can quote alot of nairalanders response to your foolish questions and when you were asked questions you ran away. Like this one for instance.



VERY SILLY that you are not even in agreement with your fellow jman who loves asking random silly questions.



And funny enof you couldn't still answer..and you have the effrontery to come here and speak thrash about me weakening in confidence. You need to have your brains examined.



So can you pls enlighten us here WHAT was said, revealed about Jesus Christ in heb 1.8? I AM NOT DIGRESSING, AFTER GODHEAD, WE DISCUSS THIS ONE

Hahaha! You are quoting hisblud. He went about thanking frosbel and I for opening his eyes more on trinity. He was just excited but when i asked him unanswerable questions on Godhead, he disappeared.

If you quote "I and my Father are one," he will be very happy and would not want to hear any other thing.

Answer my foolish question on Godhead if you can. I am not digressing. Have you noticed that you are so afraid to point at all the wrong things you claim i said? I dare you to go back and tell me that what i said about Godhead is wrong. Focus on Godhead, don't digress. Waiting for your response and be careful not to insult our Father knowingly or unknowingly. My hand no dey am o!

.

Bidam: He taught me nothing.
I wonder who inspired A STATEMENT below which floored you big time.


.The worlds were framed by the word of God. Jesus is the word of God.God CANNOT BE SEPARATE FROM HIS WORD.So who was HEB 1 : 8 referring to?
Still in the business of quoting random scripture out of context i see. So who is the arm of the Lord? Who was it revealed to?
Calling you a demon will be very relevant i guess.

If calling me a demon will boost your confidence to answer my question on Godhead, Go ahead. May be because i torment liers.

I have already shown that Godhead is the nature of God and it is own by God and God gives it to who ever He pleases. These things destroyed the meaning trinitarian formulated on Godhead which they stated that it consist of 3 persons. Go and tell me i am wrong with scriptural proof.

Bidam: Good. All the example you gave are summed up in what i have been repeating my self hoarse in this thread. Jesus is Spirit, God is Spirit, The Holy Spirit is Spirit,There is no greater or lesser Spirit in the Godhead, Jesus is not an angel neither is He an arc angel .The angels are actually lesser beings and are lower in the chain of command than believers.

God resides in us,Christ resides in us, the Holy Spirit resides in us. The question is why would scripture mention 3 and not 1?
Romans 8:9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. 10If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.…

My point is this scripture shows ALL as SPIRIT. scriptures records God hates idol worship and we know anyone that worship an idol commits idolatry by making an idol its deity. Jesus is not an idol with a small "g".He is not a lesser god like you pple paint Him.Jesus is worshiped in scripture. God is worshiped in scripture, The Holy Spirit is worshiped in scripture.

Just like i said before and i am still repeating again till you , The word FATHER doesn't mean secular father, if it means secualr father who is the mother The word Father refers to God's being the source from which Jesus was sent . Jesus did not exist as a person in heaven. He exist as THE WORD OF GOD. YOU CANNOT SEPARATE GOD FROM HIS WORD. The WORD now became flesh and dwelt among men. So when Jesus came to earth through the virgin birth by the Power of the Holy Ghost, He came as 100percent Man AND 100PERCENT GOD.So what the bible is saying is that God is ONE, but He expresses himself in three distinct personalities and dimensions. That is to say Both Jesus and the Spirit proceeded from the FATHER.

I gave you several verses clearly showing the Father to be superior, most of the verses about Christ when he was on earth and after being resurrected to heaven, and you respond by spouting all these unrelated stories.

Do angels have mothers when the bible calls them 'sons of God' (Job 38:7)? Just keep squirming and forming stories as you go along. You just dig yourselves deeper into poo. Meaning of Christ's sonship is clear - he is the firstborn of all creation (Col1:15), the beginning of the creation by God (Rev 3:14). Christ is a created being. It's why he is called 'begotten' son (John3:16). 'Begotten' means 'to father or produce' an offspring - vocabulary.com. Christ was produced by God directly.

The reason Christ is called The Word is because he is God's spokesperson, who explains God (John1:18)- not that Christ is God's spoken or written word/instructions/prophecies. This is clearly apparent in the way God gave John the visions of Revelation - from God to Jesus to angel to John (Rev 1:1). As the head of the congregation, Christ is the spokesperson for God and he played same role when he was in heaven before coming to earth.

If the fullness of the deity dwells in Jesus while on Earth, should we not also desire such as Christians since our Body is the temple of the Holy Spirit and God dwells in us? Jesus is the PATTERN SON and God sent Him to show us holiness,raising the dead,walking on water,miracles,healing the sick and casting out satan is a possibility. We ought to emulate him and walk as he walked, since he came as flesh and blood, God allowed him to be tempted in every area to show us that we can overcome what the devil throws at us. The first Adam failed where the last Adam succeeded.
I understand Jehovah witness has twisted the bible and still continue to twist it to support this error that Jesus is not deity and hell is not real.
But pls don't be brainwashed,come out from among them and be ye separated and i will receive you. This is a prophecy from God to you trogunn.

I guess if the bolded happens, we'll also become God Amighty, abi? Confusion galore. Indeed I do agree with you, though that we should walk as did Christ, in truth and according to the scriptures- and Christ clearly stated he is lesser than the Father (John14:28). Definitely not in useless human traditions and satan-inspired falsehood. Do yourself a favour, Google 'origin of Trinity' and free yourself so you stop creating threads you get bashed in because you find no satisfaction and your conscience is troubling you.

Bidam: So you can see your question is irritable and makes no sense. Just like you were irritated at HEB 1 :8 that calls Jesus God. .
yes my bible not NWT.

NWT WAS INSPIRED BY DEMONS.

You better learn to answer a question, instead of jumping. I repeat:


oga, I said you not google. answer the question.



I understand you mean to say, infinite. Am I correct?



As oppose to what?

The bold showed you are still a kid in spiritual matters. So you have the right bible inspired? chai, nairaland people self... well, keep living in that darkness, until you progress to someone who will use that statement to tell you how shallow you are in spiritual matters.

But answer the question abeg.

Boomark: Quoting and counter-quoting of bible verses with bidam is a waste of time. If you want to reduce his confidence in trinity doctrine to nothing, you must of focus your question on one thing at a time(eg. Godhead) untill he explains it to a biblical conclusion. You must not allow him to digress because that is where his power is.

I am a speaking out of experience and you will see say things like, "trinity is a mystery, it looks like foolishness, we should allow heaven to do the reasoning," assuming he is a catholic, he will say, "what makes you think you know more than us, don't you know we wrote the bible? we are the 1st church, etc." This will certainly happen when he has nothing to say anymore.

Let it be a question and answer things(teaching), if not, nothing will come out of this discussion.

hahahahahahaha, you must be an analyst.